HEVYDEVY FORUMS

Well, it looks like the world took one more step towards being more safe tonight as Barack Obama blew away John McCain in the presidential debates tonight. The main focus tonight was on foreign policy, which was supposed to be McCain's specialty, but Obama came out as the clear cut winner tonight in the debates. Could America be one step closer to getting rid of the Republican party's pull?

I'll be honest, as an independent voter, I don't have a party of choice, but I clearly can't stand the Republicans, and the Democrats still don't do it for me, but they're much better (anyone who can remember the last 16 years, compare Clinton to Bush to see why). Sorry if this is a bit out of nowhere (especially for someone with under 20 posts in the last year), but I'm pretty excited about this, as Obama really seemed to come prepared tonight.

Obama is an absolute charismatic. He said a lot of things the American people wanted to hear. Kudos to him. Personally, knowing his history with outside dealings with Freddie Mac and Fannie May...I can only think of the guy as a liar.

That being said I'm not exactly a McCain fan, though I am much more conservative than I am liberal.

The debate was very good. Both sides brought up good points, and I thought both defended the points well.

Also I think comparing all republicans to Bush is in bad taste. Thats like comparing all democrats to Fidel Castro. Just because one person is an extreme case of far-leftism or a far-rightist doesnt mean they all are.

Eh, I've had a good amount of experience from both sides, and the Republicans that I have dealt with have, for the most part, defended Bush while most democrats that I have dealt with have spoken out against Castro. It's a bad comparison. Maybe comparing most democrats to Carter if you're looking for someone bad. It's bad to compare most people in any party to a single person. I'm personally just hoping for someone who will do what's best for the world as a whole, and I just can't see that from the Republican party right now, nor during my entire lifetime. The only president to be even decent during my lifetime has been a democrat.

You do know Reagan was a Republican right? You know the president who did more good for our country than almost any other?

The reason I used Castro is because communism is a form of far far-leftism.

Personally my reason for being more on the conservative side of things is because Obama has some views that I just do not agree with. Like making education and healthcare available to everyone. As nice as that sounds, thats a socialistic view. Most socialistic/communistic countries have universal health care and education. You can take Canada as an exception to that of course. Also government regulation in private businesses is absolutely not needed in America. It would diminish our Free Enterprise which is one thing that makes America what it is.

i noticed that the moderator was being a prick towards obama. mcain kept interupting him when he was making a point and the moderator didnt do shit.

im just curious do you americans even give a shit if you win the war? john wouldnt shutup about acheiving "victory" . ugh, politics...

My god there's just no escaping...

sj_2150 wrote:i noticed that the moderator was being a prick towards obama. mcain kept interupting him when he was making a point and the moderator didnt do shit.

im just curious do you americans even give a shit if you win the war? john wouldnt shutup about acheiving "victory" . ugh, politics...

I dont even think we can "win" in Iraq. If they do by some random turn of events find Bin Laden(who was the original focus of this "war") and kill him or capture him then we could call it "victory"

Biert wrote:My god there's just no escaping...

RON PAUL 2027!

sj_2150 wrote:i noticed that the moderator was being a prick towards obama. mcain kept interupting him when he was making a point and the moderator didnt do shit.

im just curious do you americans even give a shit if you win the war? john wouldnt shutup about acheiving "victory" . ugh, politics...

The war against Saddam was won pretty quickly.

What you have now is largely civil war, jostling for power amongst religious and tribal factions and some opportunist Al Quaeda folks who want to kill any and all infidels. Nobody from outside the place can 'win' that under today's rules. All of this was largely predicted before anybody set foot there. Iraq is three countries, the only thing that held it together was a tough dictatorship. I would imagine once the west leaves it will fall apart pretty fast, aided by interfering neighbours, unless they get another tough bastard at the helm.

I think Keeker put it better than any one else could have.

During the entire debate, John McCain rarely, if not, never made eye-contact with Obama, and McCain was clearly twisting facts to be half-truths and saying that Obama "didn't understand" various subjects throughout the duration. I really respected how Obama handled himself and kept his cool, even when correcting the BS that McCain tried to pass off as legit. If McCain ever came across a topic he wanted to avoid, he'd just find some way to segway into talking about Reagan, another barely-related topic, or his amazing ability to get captured/tortured (yes, he is a veteran and I respect that and how he served for our country, but being a POW isn't a characteristic I really consider when looking for presidential qualities). And let's not forget to mention how McCain is apparently strongly against all this corruption in government, when he himself is very corrupt (the Keating 5, anyone?). I'm sure Obama has his fair share of skeletons in his closet (politicians will be politicians), but one thing that really won my respect was how Obama, when asked in an interview if he had ever taken drugs of any kind, openly said that he did in fact experiment with drugs in his youth, but he got his shit together, cleaned up, and ended up being the respectable, non-elitist politician that he is today.

Obama is promising a lot, and I'd being lying if I said that I believe that he'll get around to do all of it. So far from what I've seen from the McCain/Palin camp is that they are primarily throwing out half-truths about Obama's plans and history, and then throw out the "positives" of what they are aiming to acheive, mixed in with some good ol' blind American pride and "patriotism" for good measure in order to catch the people's ears and win over their superficial hearts. Not to say that those on Obama's side aren't using some falsifying of their own...mainly in TV ads. But from what I've seen while reading through factcheck.org (a non-partisan site dedicated to digging deeper into what both Obama and McCain say in order to reveal the truth about their statements), McCain takes the cake for not being 100% truthful.

And Palin having anything to do with this election at all pisses me off. She's a perfect example of the bible-beating, gun-toting American. Call me conspiracy theorist, but I wouldn't put it past the commanding powers of the Republican party to pull some crazy shit where they put her as VP just so they could kill off McCain (or pretend to have him "die", only to have him go into hiding) and have her become the first female president. I can honestly say that it would not surprise me.

Needless to say, I've been listening to a lot more metal lately because of this damn presidential race.

I think you should absolutely look more into Obama's side and how his community organizing group took loads of money from Fannie May and/or Freddie Mac.

McCain is far from the most truthful, but Obama is just as guilty. Any time a questionable figure in Obama's life was brought up (his reverend of 20 years, for example) He just plays it off saying "thats not the person I knew". What a weak way to try and cover your own ass.

I honestly wish we had more than a 2 party system here, because there were a few other hopefuls on the Republican side I would have much rather seen get the nomination than McCain. And nerdguy, I think having military experience is one thing a President should have...mainly for the fact that he is the Commander in Chief of our armed forces. That is his main job, not the economy, not health care. The President of the United States is first and foremost the leader of our armed forces. People seem to forget this and think its all about the smaller things.

Both parties can make all the claims they want about tax breaks, tax hikes, making health care/education affordable for everyone. But the chance of these things actually going into play is so much smaller than the general public even realizes. All of these candidates know that the general public they seek votes from is naive and believes the president has the power to change just about anything.

I'm trying to not play one side here...I personally dont like the candidates on both ends, but there are things Obama wants that I personally think do not sound like things we need.

I do give Obama credit though, for being very civil at the debate and not interrupting McCain as he spoke, as most left-wingers tend to just talk louder than the opposition to drown them out and make them seem like idiots. Obama spoke well during the debate, and I hope to see other debates between the two that are just as good if not better.

This is sort of sidestepping a lot of the main debate, but I just thought I would drop this in:

The state of American politics in the near future will be a determining whether or not I will ever be able to buy a home.

That frightens me.

I never said Obama didn't have his fair share of things he would like to keep from the public. Compared to McCain, though, from all the speeches I'd seen and cross-referencing I'd done, Obama . As a response to the "weak way to cover one's own ass", I offer this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajm5JTf7jZs

I also never said that the president shouldn't have military experience, I just stated that going on and on about one being a tortured POW doesn't exactly factor into what I believe are presidential characteristics. True, it would definitely affect one's opinion on torture in the military, but there is also a good chance that his POW experience shortened his lifespan. See this: http://gunnyg.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/ ... ip-butler/

The president should know how to react when it comes to a militaristic decision, being commander-in-chief and all, but the president is also that which represents the government, the nation, and its people. I don't want an elderly man who has a history of getting very defensive when his views come into question, prompting an "I'm-right-and-you're-wrong-and-thats-it" scenario, representing me...let alone making decisions on military-based issues. I also think it is amazing how McCain graduated only fifth from the bottom of his graduating class at the US Naval Academy.

Political elections usually are all about choosing the lesser of two evils, and it is a shame that thats the way it is. Playing the popularity game and whatnot. But I am also looking forward to the upcoming debates...more details to chew on.

And this was by no means an attack on you, AlucardXIX...I just wanted to kinda clear up my opinions a bit. From what I've seen on here, you are a cool guy and...after all...we are brought together by our support of Devin Townsend, so I don't want this thread to overshadow that fact (not to get all deep and emotional or anything). Political-based threads in forums, while good for throwing around ideas, always seem like a bad idea. Like mixing oil and water.

I'm not a political person, but the way I see it is that if you're voting Republican, you're happy in the knowledge that Sarah Palin could end up in charge of the most powerful country in the world.