HEVYDEVY FORUMS

Well it looks like Satrianis gone and sued coldplay saying they ripped the tune of "Viva La Vida" off. it seems like a major coincidence though. Coldplay got the tune from the song "Talk" of Kraftwerk and asked permission to do it first. So it seems odd that they wouldnt ask permission for the tune for that. The Satriani song sucks ass in my opinion too.

One of my favourite bands Killing Joke had a dispute with Nirvana about them stealing the riff of "Eighties" to make the song "Come As You Are" and although it was painfully obvious that they had knicked it from KJ i dont really think you should really be able sue for a musical tune. If that was the case so many horrible musicians should be in jail (it would pleasure me immensely )

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/0 ... 48676.html

[youtube]1ofFw9DKu_I[/youtube]

DISCUSS!

This

[youtube]M4KX7SkDe4Q[/youtube]

is my "favourite" example of plagiaristic douchebaggery. Timbaland nicked whole melody composed by Finnish dude on C64 (SID chip from this computer is rather cool piece of vintage 8 bit synthesizer), actually he sampled most of it without asking anyone. Then arrogantly laughed like a totally prick he is at original author, who as far as I know surrendered, because chance of winning with mr Star Producer is rather thin. So, Timbaland and Nelly Furtado still happily get money earned on selling somebody's other work (it was also offered as "Timbaland's" ringtone). There are some other materials on youtube showing how Timbaland likes to nick lesser-knows artists melodies (some folk artists from around the world etc) and selling them. This is rather sad, isn't it.

that ones an obvious steal. see this is the problem. its a very double edged sword because sometimes it seems ridiculous for a lawsuit and sometimes it just seems like the offender should be ruined. im wholeheartedly against Timbaland in any way shape or form by the way. i hope he dies of the harshest cancer known to man and his family is left in absolute agony while some homeless guy i hired pisses on his coffin at his funeral. but anyawy thats not what the threads about . ive made my point anyway

Well, it's just a melody and it's just a chord progression. As Strauss said, "Good composers borrow; great composers steal." I'm not sure if Cold Play fall under the "great composers" category, but Cold Play took it in a new direction even if they did steal it, so it sounds like Satriani is acting like quite the prick for wanting some cash out of it. My guess is that he's just trying to capitalize on a commercially successful album, since I doubt he's got much up his sleeve at this point.

I don't really care too much for either artist, but honestly, the whole thing sounds better when you mix the two. Satch should ask to collaborate and do the song on tour with them or something...

soundsofentropy wrote:Well, it's just a melody and it's just a chord progression. As Strauss said, "Good composers borrow; great composers steal." I'm not sure if Cold Play fall under the "great composers" category, but Cold Play took it in a new direction even if they did steal it, so it sounds like Satriani is acting like quite the prick for wanting some cash out of it. My guess is that he's just trying to capitalize on a commercially successful album, since I doubt he's got much up his sleeve at this point.

I don't really care too much for either artist, but honestly, the whole thing sounds better when you mix the two. Satch should ask to collaborate and do the song on tour with them or something...

Really? I was pretty much rooting for Satriani. I realize that the melody in question isn't the most unusual and unique melody ever written, and it is possible that it was an accident (or borrowed from someone else) but still.... the melody is a match no matter how you look at it. I should add though, that I'm very biased, as I hate Coldplay with a fiery passion, and hope they drop off the face of the planet.

With that said, I think Satriani at least deserves and explanaition or an apology or something I dunno, just my thought. If someone took my groove and made millions off of it, I'd be livid.



Now that example you posted BrunoN was true plagerism. That was shameless, Timbaland should be ashamed of himself - stealing from a Finn like that. What a dick

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptomnesia

But fuck Coldplay, Satriani deserves all their money just cause i like him more
And about chord progressions, it reminds me of this:

[youtube]JdxkVQy7QLM[/youtube]

Yanko wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptomnesia

Thanks. Just spent half hour on reading about cryptomnesia, zeitgeist, automatic writing and surrealist automatism. Damn you wikipedia.

Step by Step by NKOTB is the same song as the Captain Planet theme

Try and find them and listen... you will see I am right.

The Satriani song is in a different key and tempo. It was edited for that video. Oh, and:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cgy8TBr_dk

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=cH4gaPHs9Hc

Both those songs are older than the Satriani song.

I fucking hate Coldplay and I hope they all die in a building fire, but I'm rooting for them on this one. Satriani is just being a jerk.

Devy, spelled Devy! wrote:

soundsofentropy wrote:Well, it's just a melody and it's just a chord progression. As Strauss said, "Good composers borrow; great composers steal." I'm not sure if Cold Play fall under the "great composers" category, but Cold Play took it in a new direction even if they did steal it, so it sounds like Satriani is acting like quite the prick for wanting some cash out of it. My guess is that he's just trying to capitalize on a commercially successful album, since I doubt he's got much up his sleeve at this point.

I don't really care too much for either artist, but honestly, the whole thing sounds better when you mix the two. Satch should ask to collaborate and do the song on tour with them or something...

Really? I was pretty much rooting for Satriani. I realize that the melody in question isn't the most unusual and unique melody ever written, and it is possible that it was an accident (or borrowed from someone else) but still.... the melody is a match no matter how you look at it. I should add though, that I'm very biased, as I hate Coldplay with a fiery passion, and hope they drop off the face of the planet.

With that said, I think Satriani at least deserves and explanaition or an apology or something I dunno, just my thought. If someone took my groove and made millions off of it, I'd be livid.



Now that example you posted BrunoN was true plagerism. That was shameless, Timbaland should be ashamed of himself - stealing from a Finn like that. What a dick

That's just it, though. They didn't take his groove. They took his notes and a bit of his rhythm (note the difference in the way the voices play off of each other in each song), but they created something new with it. I hate Cold Play quite a bit also, but stealing happens all the time in music, and unless it's blatant exploitation (as Timbaland), it's really nothing that anyone has a right to be fussy about. Classical (I use the term loosely) composers stole a HUGE fraction of the things they wrote from folk songs and stuff that was already popular at the time. Plus, the possibilities of melody within any given length are essentially finite within tonal frameworks, and so eventually it'll all be repeated anyway. Unless music makes a push for atonal/non-Western melodies or melodies just keep getting longer (that could be painful), people are going to have to copy each other. It might be nice of them to throw Satriani's name in small print credits or something, but they really shouldn't have to.

Besides, it just goes to show that at least part of Satch was only doing it for the money in the first place.

I make almost no money from my music, so if someone copied me and became rich and famous, I suppose I'd be irritated only for the fact that I'd be the one looking like a plagiarist. Money really isn't all that important, and as long as I'm surviving with some degree of comfort (I'm guessing Satriani isn't quite destitute), I'm not too concerned about getting more of it. I'm just getting tired of the Lars Ulrichs of the world...

soundsofentropy wrote:

Devy, spelled Devy! wrote:

soundsofentropy wrote:Well, it's just a melody and it's just a chord progression. As Strauss said, "Good composers borrow; great composers steal." I'm not sure if Cold Play fall under the "great composers" category, but Cold Play took it in a new direction even if they did steal it, so it sounds like Satriani is acting like quite the prick for wanting some cash out of it. My guess is that he's just trying to capitalize on a commercially successful album, since I doubt he's got much up his sleeve at this point.

I don't really care too much for either artist, but honestly, the whole thing sounds better when you mix the two. Satch should ask to collaborate and do the song on tour with them or something...

Really? I was pretty much rooting for Satriani. I realize that the melody in question isn't the most unusual and unique melody ever written, and it is possible that it was an accident (or borrowed from someone else) but still.... the melody is a match no matter how you look at it. I should add though, that I'm very biased, as I hate Coldplay with a fiery passion, and hope they drop off the face of the planet.

With that said, I think Satriani at least deserves and explanaition or an apology or something I dunno, just my thought. If someone took my groove and made millions off of it, I'd be livid.



Now that example you posted BrunoN was true plagerism. That was shameless, Timbaland should be ashamed of himself - stealing from a Finn like that. What a dick

That's just it, though. They didn't take his groove. They took his notes and a bit of his rhythm (note the difference in the way the voices play off of each other in each song), but they created something new with it. I hate Cold Play quite a bit also, but stealing happens all the time in music, and unless it's blatant exploitation (as Timbaland), it's really nothing that anyone has a right to be fussy about. Classical (I use the term loosely) composers stole a HUGE fraction of the things they wrote from folk songs and stuff that was already popular at the time. Plus, the possibilities of melody within any given length are essentially finite within tonal frameworks, and so eventually it'll all be repeated anyway. Unless music makes a push for atonal/non-Western melodies or melodies just keep getting longer (that could be painful), people are going to have to copy each other. It might be nice of them to throw Satriani's name in small print credits or something, but they really shouldn't have to.

Besides, it just goes to show that at least part of Satch was only doing it for the money in the first place.

I make almost no money from my music, so if someone copied me and became rich and famous, I suppose I'd be irritated only for the fact that I'd be the one looking like a plagiarist. Money really isn't all that important, and as long as I'm surviving with some degree of comfort (I'm guessing Satriani isn't quite destitute), I'm not too concerned about getting more of it. I'm just getting tired of the Lars Ulrichs of the world...

You've got some good points Entropy; especially the bit about everyone rips everyone off, even classical guys! Since I don't know the dates that either song were written or released, I guess I can't really speak on it. I am just going by the youtube video, which Nathan says was altered (??? Really? ) Anyways, you are right - this isn't about money; but if that truly is Satriani's song, and he did it first, it's about principal and personal pride. So whatever the case maybe, I hope it gets straightened out.


I like Satriani infinitely better, so of course, I'm going to hope his side is the winning side. I hope it gets settled before Christ Martin's ego can get any bigger - it grows a a little bit everyday

I think most people that have attempted to write music, have written something that's strongly influenced by something else, or have ended up inadvertently plagiarising something due to Cryptomnesia (nice to know there's a name for that particular phenomenon! This is taking the piss though, there's no way that's not deliberate!

There can be a fine line between being influenced by something, and ripping something off, but there's a massive difference between ripping something off, and just copying a melody note for note.

both those songs sound so basic! that melody has probably been used many times. Music is universal. When you have half a billion people thinking and interpreting music the same way (at the most superficial level) this kind of stuff is BOUND to happen!

my take - shame on satriani for suing; shame on both for writing shitty music.

Not all music has to be complex, variety is the spice of life.

The Oid wrote:Not all music has to be complex, variety is the spice of life.

^^You are 100% right, Oid. But I do see your point, fullgore.


The bottom line?? This:

Due to reading about this dispute so much lately, I had a dream last night that Satriani made a world-wide proclamation on TV - he wanted to henceforth be known as The Flying Pickle. No exceptions. He wouldn't respond to or talk to people who refered to him by "Joe," "Satch" or "Satriani" anymore.

It was really weird.