Post HevyDevy fan art, covers, mashups, guitar tabs, etc here
#301183 by swervedriver
Wed May 09, 2012 1:09 am
Yup, I was skeptic. Not so much about the concept itself, but more in terms of playability/feel so I wasn't exactly comfortable having to order over $100 worth of strings I'm not even sure I'm going to like. But it's fine, I did my research and D'Addario's extensive chart of string gauge densities has allowed me to construct progressive tension sets using Elixir strings (under the assumption those densities are similar). Not yet too happy with what was available for drop C tuning (CGCFAD), because I think the overall tension will be a bit low, but I can very easily get a better set of strings directly from my local guitar shop if need be.


As for the emails, long post is long. All these emails were exchanged about a week ago, and copy-pasted from my inbox.

I wrote:Hi Alex,

(if this email is too long, there's a summary in the final paragraph)

I've been turned to your site via a music forum I frequent, and I am intrigued by the Progressive Tension concept you explain thoroughly on it. I've been playing guitars for close to 17 years and always thought it was a bit strange that the 'common' way to find your optimum strings was more or less just trial and error. As I'm currently a PhD-student (I'm Dutch, by the way), I really like the scientific approach you present. And it makes sense, too. Somehow the idea began growing in my head that playing guitar is all about feel and emotional response and fluffy clouds or whatever, and science should stay the hell away from it. Maybe because of "guitar purists" on the internet or maybe explaining something with numbers is not a very rock-n-roll approach, I don't know.

Anyway, I've been toying with different string gauges/tensions the past couple of years, especially since the band I'm playing guitar in requires quite a broad range of tunings, from standard E (with or without low B) on my 7-string to drop D and drop C tunings. For fun I also like to experiment with open C/open B tuning, so you can imagine finding a decent set of strings has been somewhat of a nightmare. Therefore, for band purposes I have guitars dedicated to one specific tuning, never to be changed, and a few crappy ones at home which are usually in whatever tuning I feel like playing in at a particular time. Especially for those guitars which are fixed to one tuning I think the ZOG sets can be a great improvement. My list of guitars:

Fixed tunings:
-Fender Tele (special edition custom spalted maple), 25.5", drop D
-Fender Strat (American series, HSS with S-1 switch), 25.5", drop C
-Ibanez RG7321 (exchanged stock pickups with DiMarzio D-Activators), 25.5", standard E with low B

Variable tunings, ranging from standard to dropped to open tunings:
-Fender FA-100 (acoustic steelstring, spruce top (yes, I'm aware) ), 25.3"
-Ovation CP247-D5Q (electro-acoustic, quilted maple top), 25 1/4"
-Gibson Epiphone S-210, 25.5"

I've been looking over your selection of strings and think I should go for the ZOG 10+ set for the Strat (drop C), the 10 Nickel Roundwound Drop D set for the Tele (duh) and the 10 Nickel Roundwound 7-string (for low B tuning) for the RG7 (again, duh). Please advise if I'm totally wrong here, but I like to think I can read so I hope I didn't overlook anything glaringly obvious.

But, what about guitars I use in variable tunings? It would seem to me that your optimized sets would not be the most suitable to use in that case. Well, from drop D to drop C perhaps since the tension progression remains the same (although the overall tension decreases), but going from standard E to open C? Seems unlikely that it will work as well, but perhaps you've had this question before and can shed some light on that.

Maybe I should mention I've started out with d'Addario sets and about 2 years ago switched to Elixir strings, lured by their fancy coated strings. In terms of durability it was certainly a step up, since their loss of tonal clarity has been very limited in my experience, so that made them worth their increased price (or at least, break even vs regular strings). But they're still the same gauge distribution as before, and for 7-strings I've only found 1 single gauge set. And I'm no fan of that fact. I'm quite willing to do a few more string changes in a year (vs once a year) if it means another step up in sound quality.


I hope I haven't taken too much of your time with this rather long email. In summary, thanks for sharing and explaining your Progressive Tension concept and please advise me on how well this concept applies to guitars which change tuning rather often. Thank you in advance for any feedback.


Kind regards
Pim


Alex wrote:I think it would be quite logical that any of my Optimized sets is specific to an exact tunining. If you change this tuning you no longer have an Optimized set and you have a badly designed or undesigned set as any other string brand.

So you must dedicated a guitar to one type of tuning for it to remain optimized.

However, you can get away with something less than perfect optimization if you change your tuning a reasonable amount. For example I use a ZOG 10+ set to tune my 5th from A down to G and my 6th from E down to D and also my high E to D. I still get away with this but I am using a + set to make it work better. A + set is a more heavily Optimized set with additional amount of progression.

You cannot make extreme changes in tuning though.

So let me know what string sets you need.

Alex


I wrote:Hi Alex,

Thanks, I figured your sets would less optimal for variable tunings but it's good to see it confirmed. One question remains though: for drop C tuning, would I be better off with a ZOG 10+ set or a drop D set? My order list below assumes ZOG 10+ for drop C:

4x ZOG 10+ (3 sets for drop C tuning on 25.5" neck, 1 set on trial for variable tuning on 25.5" neck)
3x Drop D 10 (25.5" neck)
3x 7-string w/ low B 10 (25.5" neck)
2x Phosphor Bronze Acoustic 12 (spruce top, 25.3" neck)

As per your site's recommendations to cover for international shipping costs (to the Netherlands) I've indicated how many of each set I'd like. I'd prefer to use PayPal as payment method. The order content may change depending on your answer regarding the drop C tuning, but in case no change is necessary I've put my address below:

***

Kind regards,
Pim


Alex wrote:First list for me all the strings in a drop C tuning, so I know. Some call it a drop C when just the 6th string is tuned to C, some have the strings tuned to a C chord. You should always list me all your strings in the tuning so I know what we are dealing with.

Alex


I wrote:Hi Alex,

I only know drop C as CGCFAD. I know the other tunings you mention but I've never heard them referred to as drop C. Oh well.

So the list in further detail:
3x ZOG 10+ (or perhaps a more optimized set?) for drop C (CGCFAD)
1x ZOG 10+ for variable tuning, as a try-out
3x Drop D 10 (DADGBe)
3x 7-string w/ low B 10 (BEADGBe)
2x Phosphor Bronze Acoustic 12 (EADGBe)

Does this work for you, or do you need additional info?

Kind regards,
Pim


Alex wrote:E A D G B E
C G C F A D

Look at the big differences her between what my sets are optimized for and what you want to do with them. Not smart at all. You need a specifically optimized set for this drop C tuning. My other sets will not work for you. Why would you want to compromise? Might as well get strings from any other manufacturer, if you want something which is that incorrect.

I will be offering custom sets now and i can perfectly optimize and create a set for you.
You have to buy a minimum of 10 sets at $10 per set.


I wrote:Hi Alex,

I'd rather not compromise, but this is the first time I read anything about custom sets. The only mention of drop C on your website is for the ZOG 10+ set, hence I went with that. But apparently you mean drop C with just the 6th tuned to C, which ironically isn't defined there either. I am not clairvoyant.

The 10 times $10 is a little more than what I anticipated (not the $10, the 10 times; but I realize it has to be economically viable for you to create these sets), however the euro exchange rate is working in my favor here so I'll take that chance. I suppose that makes the final list as follows:

10x Drop C 10 (CGCFAD)
1x ZOG 10+ (variable tuning)
3x Drop D 10 (DADGBe)
3x 7-string w/ low B 10 (BEADGBe)
2x Phosphor Bronze Acoustic 12 (EADGBe)

Are we in agreement now?

Kind regards,
Pim


Alex wrote:Have you purchased from me before? I don't remember. Are you familiar with my work, talent and capabilities?
I am not familiar with your abilities and achievements but that does not matter in this situation.

I have just reviewed what I wrote on my ZOG page and it is not correct to tune the 10+ down to C. I have reconsidered this defenitely, given my vastly more experience by this time. I will correct this on the page. That was written years ago and in my experience they will not be sufficient for anything lower than D.

You said you will "take the chance". What do you mean by that? It sounds like you are apprehensive.


I wrote:Hi Alex,

No, I have not purchased from you before. As I wrote in my (admittely lengthy) original email, I was recently turned towards your work through a music forum I frequent. So I am not too familiar with your work, but have read up on your website. Very impressive, because there's an underlying genuinely well-thought-out idea for everything I see there, be it strings, guitars, pedals, etc. And any form of handcrafting to such an extent is admirable.

Apprehensive may not be the correct word, but as with all new things there is a sense of wanting to try before fully committing. So the "apprehension" stems from immediately going for 10 sets instead of the 2 or 3 I have in mind for my other guitars. For me, the progressive tension concept is still an unproven one (keep in mind that a week ago I was pretty much oblivious). Sure, numbers don't lie, which is why I have faith they will not be a disappointment, but there's a bit of healthy nervousness/curiosity/anticipation involved.

Kind regards,
Pim


Alex wrote:This is where you show lack of intelligence. Progressive tension is the rule of physics. There is nothing to be be proven to a forum member. Everything is progressive in the physical world. As pitch is lowered tension must go up. Equal tension is not sufficient. That is for the unknowledgeable. If you don
#301216 by swervedriver
Wed May 09, 2012 5:56 am
^ That's a fairly accurate summary, yes. :lol:
#301233 by Octillus
Wed May 09, 2012 12:37 pm
What a sad human being.

People like that and Malmsteen sure seem to be missing a lot of the point about art and music.
#301240 by C_Lydian
Wed May 09, 2012 4:38 pm
I'm not defending Alex in this situation, but it seems like you misinterpreted what the 10+ sets actually are. They're standard tuning sets meant for short scale guitars like Les Pauls. Regardless of what he may of said about tuning down to C, he makes that pretty clear. The best set for you would have been the 11 Nickel Roundwound Drop D, or the 12 and 13 gauge sets if you don't mind a wound 3rd. At any rate, I'm sorry things didn't turn out. Just don't worry about it because he's not gonna come through the computer and strangle you. You can always try again under a different name LOL. I think my guitar teacher's been buying ZOG strings surreptitiously. That's another story.
#301248 by Tyroshai
Thu May 10, 2012 2:35 am
C_Lydian wrote:I'm not defending Alex in this situation, but it seems like you misinterpreted what the 10+ sets actually are. They're standard tuning sets meant for short scale guitars like Les Pauls. Regardless of what he may of said about tuning down to C, he makes that pretty clear. The best set for you would have been the 11 Nickel Roundwound Drop D, or the 12 and 13 gauge sets if you don't mind a wound 3rd. At any rate, I'm sorry things didn't turn out. Just don't worry about it because he's not gonna come through the computer and strangle you. You can always try again under a different name LOL. I think my guitar teacher's been buying ZOG strings surreptitiously. That's another story.


So what? He's proven himself to be an utter cunt. Why would anyone want to give him their money after he's previously been a total bastard? Seriously.
#304544 by Cg138
Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:54 pm
"Are you familiar with my work, talent and capabilities?"


I knew from this point that things were about to get considerably interesting.

"There is no way I could ever achieve anything by hanging out in guitar forums. This is why you are skeptical. "


Because skepticism is a bad thing.

"When I sense stupidity in a person, I loose all respect for them. Sorry!"


Irony redefined.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests