Archived - Discussion about records and bands produced by Devin
#89011 by Falk
Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:18 am
Just wonder, do you think a production can be to good ?

I mean, vinyls Vs CD, theatre Vs DVD, argentic photo Vs numeric and so on...
The point is to get everything as clean, perfect, as possible, but this could also lead to a lack of personnallity, or "authenticity" (same works for CG art, the best are often those who reproduce, or emulate, traditionnal technic (rough brush strokes, etc etc) and add to this the advantages of computer).
When I look at a movie on DVD, I sometimes find the picture to good, lacking a little something, I'm not sure what exactly.

So this may only be nostalgie acting here (not that I've listen to a lot of vinyls, or was a pro in argentic photography...), but it's just something I wonder about music production.
Well I guess that in most artistic domains, more than anywhere else, progress and technology may bring some changes and attenuate this "hand made" impression, let's just hope we can create it with other tricks.

(I could also talk about the speed loader for guitars, I don't know if it's great or not, but though it looks great, it doesn't look to be that much used...)

I'm thinking about that cuz' actually my favourite of Devin's album is Ocean Machine, I'm not sure why, maybe the atmosphere that fit my state of mind more, or the non-standard compositions (voices in the fan, greetings, funeral, bastard, DOM), or the flow during the whole album, but as it's the oldest one, I sometimes wonder if the -maybe unperfect at that time- production may not also be a reason why I prefere this one (with all my respect to Devin's work^^ I surely don't know enough in music production to have an objective critic).

Which gives me great hopes in Synchestra, as it's announced as a big song cut into several smaller. I hope there'll be this kind of flow throughout the album, like on Biomech.
Last edited by Falk on Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

#89013 by the_scoon
Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:57 am
I totally agree, I love the way biomech flows, and the way it changes styles between songs so much, and im looking forward to Dev's new album because of that too, but i doubt it has much to do with the production. You can reach a point where there is way too much production put into an album and it sounds really fake, and that sucks, but I don't think Devin has done that yet.

#89015 by Blazingmonga
Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:14 am
I think that where Devin excels is not simply 'production' but the whole music making process, so more 'attention to detail' than anything else. An album like Biomech sounds good because every single part of it has been lovingly crafted, mixed and produced so that it sounds good. There is a life to the sound that you cannot get from twiddling knobs alone...it is due to the amount of time that Devin & Co spend getting things just right and adding all the little details too.

So yes, I suppose that a production can be too good, but only if the music falls short. Terrible music with an excellent production sounds very shallow.

#89022 by 7lights
Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:34 am
Right on, I've been sayin that for a long time. I have found that alot of production is so "shinny" now that it becomes boring to listen to. It's sounds stale and lifless. A good song can carry itself no matter what the production is like, barring the other extreme aka St. Anger.....

#93458 by Axioma
Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:37 am
That is so very true, I like to test my really rough quality demos on friends/assholes around me that I know will give me an opinion without being insulted by the quality.

On the other side though I also think that production is taking music into a new level of connection though, I'm obsessed with sound itself, and I think only now is it possible for people to achieve a musical vision at its fullest. Despite the fact that over the past year or so I've accumulated 2 or so hours of demos, I will NOT release a speck until its at the level it deserves!

In the past its been yes lets turn that vision into a song, Now its lets turn that low quality song that I love, that same feeling, and amp it till its screamed off the mountain tops, to me anyway, I've never been as good with hardware, but the ability to mix with software now I think has infinite possibilities, its just so easy to get it straight from the brain!

#94269 by Joch
Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:19 pm
Technique can be overused, whithout a doubt. Aspecially in metal, sounds can be taken way to far with the drumtrig being way out of line and the guitars sounding all machine and no handwork.

If you use the stuff properly though, like IMO is the case with Alien, technique is all good. Every layer and every detail comes to it fullest on that record. Everything is extreme but it is perfectly balanced.

#94270 by Spinalcold
Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:32 pm
quite a few bands over-produce and get sidetracked with what they can do rather than what they should do. Devin manages to balance that well. The Lamb of God he produced is very...produced but still manages to feel raw enough that they don't lose the emotion in it.

There are many bands that benefit from under producing (besides all the black metal bands who's entire goal is to make their stuff sound like it was recorded by a getto in a tin can). Bands like Nirvana, Type O Negative...and I'm drawing a blank today (friggin tired) of other bands that just go in and record the album without worrying about tweaking all the small parts of a song. Heck, Kurt Cobain didn't even write the lyrics until he want to record the song.

But there are bands that do benifit from this as well. Tuomas from Nightwish says 'you can never work on a song too much' and other musicians have been quoted saying a song is never done. People write differently and come out with different creations, some are ment to be carved into stone as they are (abstract or worked over a lot) and other seem to be more fluid.

I'm wandering and don't know what my point is anymore, lol...I need sleep.

#94290 by JuZ
Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:28 am
I think that it's entirely dependent on the music that's being made.

Listen to the latest album from The White Stripes and you can barely hear the words half the time as he wanders around the place... it sounds like it's been recorded in the kitchen and, IMO, sounds great. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of theirs but the lo-fi approach suits what they're trying to achieve.

Same with Dev... the complexity, the layers, the evolving nature of his music requires production levels that can convey all of that to the listener. There's no point writing the second half of The Fluke if you can't hear all those vocal parts dancing over eachother.

As for bad music with good production... A piece of dogshit wrapped in a bow is still a piece of dogshit.

#94298 by funny_little_guy
Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:01 am
Production can be too clean for some bands. Like click tracks, in mu opionion a lot of music these days is made almost lifeless by having a perfect tempo the whole time, some music feels like it should naturally change tempo sometimes.

#94303 by Blazingmonga
Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:18 am
JuZ wrote:I think that it's entirely dependent on the music that's being made.

Listen to the latest album from The White Stripes and you can barely hear the words half the time as he wanders around the place... it sounds like it's been recorded in the kitchen and, IMO, sounds great. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of theirs but the lo-fi approach suits what they're trying to achieve.

Same with Dev... the complexity, the layers, the evolving nature of his music requires production levels that can convey all of that to the listener. There's no point writing the second half of The Fluke if you can't hear all those vocal parts dancing over eachother.

As for bad music with good production... A piece of dogshit wrapped in a bow is still a piece of dogshit.


Good points dude!

I agree about the 'lo-fi' approach. I think with some bands if the production is too 'clean', then it loses a lot of character. Almost as if you had cleaned it all away...sterilised it.

Whoah...that was almost a metaphor or something. Or a similie. One of those buggers!

So in this same respect I dont think a musician like Devin can have a production that is 'too good'. I mean, the amount of people that complain about the sound of Physicist...and that is still an amazing production! I think these songs just demand to be heard as intensely as possible.

#97967 by andjustinforall
Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:17 am
Anyone else think that the new Lamb of God album sounded absolutely horrible with the shiny production? There's a good example of it. Heavy as heck album with pop production didnt work.

#98001 by mo
Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:33 am
COUGHlinkinparkCOUGH

#98002 by mo
Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:36 am
I have to say, I don't really dig how people stick to old ways too much. In a lot of cases, they're trying to sound like bands who would be using cutting edge shit if they were around today anyway. And IMO, if you're gonna be totally old school, don't release your shit on CD. Eh... that's just how I feel.

See, Primus did it for one album because yeah it sounds awesome, but don't stick to it.

Then again, do what you like...

#98027 by fragility
Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:42 am
Great production shows, a great mix is a benefit to anything....that being said, people can over do the attempts to perfect something. When sometimes, they'd be better off with sticking with that slightly rougher take that just captures the feel best. I also agree that too much "cleanliness" doesn't always work, there's a time and a place for both :)

#98826 by TeamJonny
Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:48 am
Can a car be too fast?

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