HEVYDEVY FORUMS

Just interested as to how everyone interprets this song lyrically?

- As a positive look at the thought of having children?
- As a more personal viewpoint on what the implications of fatherhood would be for Devin ("Goodbye baby, Daddy's Going Away")?
- As a balance of thinking "why don't you have a baby" in the positive sense mixed with an almost sarcastic viewpoint (does fatherhood really right all your wrongs?) ?

erm...

I can't think of anymore possibilities off the top of my head

Actually the first thing that came to my mind was those, you know, nosy grandparents that constantly ask you if you have a girlfriend/wife and when are you going to make babies

Oh and first I got the wrong impression since I heard the line as:

Why don't you have a baby?
Why don't you have a job?



As in, the song would talk about a bum/looser.

At first I thought it was just a lame contrast to the hatred for babies, like in Alien, but it does seem a little TOO sweet to be true. There must be sarcasm..

The Dev wrote:The Baby Song - references to Infinity, as well as a sober alternative to 'Possesions' off of Alien. I'm 33 and this concept is a biggie in my life. This is the only song on the record that is a little 'precious' - it evokes a touch of wierdness, especially when the melody returns at the end in a minor key. It's a heavy Metal Lullaby that is intended to start the questioning again after a re-awakening. A sober part of reality that needs to be addressed at this age.

Sober alternative to Possessions, re-awakening... I'd say it's a positive look on children.
That thought is strengthened by that interview where we could suggest questions:

Uryol wrote:Oh, and to the question "why don't you have a baby?"... he said: I'm on it.

So, little Devies/Tracies in the future maybe?

My interpretations upon first hearing it kept changing between an initial ironic/sarcastic standpoint (the almost childish melody and simplistic lyrics: "Why don't you have a baby?", "Babies are good") and a more positive and mature realisation that children can also be seen as part of the "whole" ("Babies are you") and as a natural progression of life (Goodbye daddy, baby's here to stay").

And I don't know... With Devin himself calling this "a sober alternative to 'Possessions'", I guess I've mistaken what should be part of the theme (babies) for irony.

And on a personal note (I know, I've written about this before, but anyways...), this is a biggie in my life as well, since I'll become a father in *gasp* about two months. So as of yesterday (when my copy of Synchestra arrived in my mailbox), I've finally replaced said SYL-song with "Babysong"...

hehe...just make sure you buy some HDR baby merch

I'm not sure it's necessarily mistaken...there's no reason why that couldn't be part of it...like "this is what everyone says, but this is my reflection on that view" and kind of still reaching the same conclusion, that "babies are good" meh..I've been doing too much studying to try and analyse anything!

I was thinking that if I name the kid Devin or Tracy, maybe I'll get some free stuff...

haha, or maybe Buylotsofhevydevymerchandise...that's got a certain ring to it

Hehe, what people will do for a free t-shirt..

My first thought when I heard this song was the nagging grandparents thing. I think it works either way you interpret it (as with many other of Devs lyrics).

It's interesting to me that the topic of having children seems to have come up in Devin & Tracy's life at this time. I'm roughly the same age (younger than Tracy, older than Dev) and I have been going through some very similar discussions with my wife. It's no secret that people are waiting longer to have children these days (early to mid 30s instead of mid to late 20s) so it's probably also indicative of educated society in general that I am addressing these issues at this age.

Tracy has mentioned in the past (on the old email list) that they had made a decision to not have children. It's a very personal decision for a couple, unlike my parent's generation who would leave home, get married and start having children - that's just what they did. (Their generation aren't called Baby Boomers for nothing.) Perhaps these songs are Devin's way of reaffirming the decision to not have kids, or of dealing with other people's perceptions of what is socailly acceptable and having them impose their own social guidelines onto others, without really understanding the reasons for such a decision. To some people it would be completely unthinkable to NOT have children. Perhaps Babysong is the beginning of a reassessment of the decision to remain childless. The lyrics are a little vague, and can be read as both positive and negative. On first glance, some lines feel a little sarcastic ("babies are good, and fatherhood rights all your wrongs") but could just as easily be completely sincere.

For myself, I can fully appreciate a few of the lyrics: "Goodbye Daddy, baby's here to stay" to me raises a fair point about every would-be father's fear of getting lost and kind of forgotten about in terms of the husband/wife relationship. Also, the question "Why don't you have a baby?" which, as a childless couple in our early to mid 30s, Lisa and I get asked a fair bit. Again it comes down to a personal choice, and what's right for one couple might not be right for another.

We always used to tell people it was because of Lisa's ongoing psychology career along with her Ph.D studies, plus I started my own business a few years ago and that takes up a lot of my time. What most people don't realise is that not every one can have children right out of the gates, even if they want them. I've known for many years now that we cannot have children, and have come to terms with that fact, and until recently been happy with our roles as "groovy aunt and uncle" to our friends' children. In fact, it's been really cool to start watching my best man's two children start to grow up and take them for weekends (bacon and pancakes are often involved), but also being able to hand them back on Sunday evening!

Because we're in the position we're in, Lisa and I are having to make a VERY conscious decision about our lives for the next 20-odd years, which is something that I honestly don't think that people do all that much. For several of our friends, the arrival of their first-born was more the result of an accident than any deliberate planning - something that is an impossibility in my particular situation.

Whilst not by any stretch of the imagination the deciding factor, the opinion/discussion/viewpoints of both "Possessions" and "Babysong" have been interesting to listen to whilst Lisa and I have been forming our own opinion on whether to have children. To make a very long story short, we have signed up for the IVF program and hope to become pregnant in the near future (possibly even in the next few weeks). We're both really excited about it.

Sorry for the long post, hope I didn't put too many people to sleep!

I find it interesting too, as I know my opinions will change with time. I know some of you may scoff at this coming from a teenager, but I do think about it. At the moment, I can't stand the idea of ever having children. I'm a very self-conscious person about certain things, and one thing I'm a little too aware of is how a parents input somehow programs a child for the future.
I'm scared i'll feel too responsible if my child turns out to be an asshole (I'm from the nurture side of the nature/nurture argument, obviously) or that i'll become a bad parent. I can barely be a good student!! I don't want to populate the world with another useless sack of meat..just for my own biological needs.

Due to this, I can see why I prefer Possessions more. It speaks to me more in my present state of mind. It is an adolescent view of babies and Babysong just seems to make me feel scared about the future and of my eventual, hideous metamorphasis into maturity. I'm 16 by the way and if it matters, 17 in March.

Now this has put some people to sleep

I didn't fall asleep. Those were two good posts. All the best of luck to you and your wife, "into the voigtex"! And as far as sixteenyearolds go, your post was both mature and well worth reading, Pisshead.

I feel more at home with "Possessions", mostly because of the ambivalence I sense in "Babysong". As most of us have pointed out, it can very well be interpreted as either positive or negative - and even both - to the concept of children and parenthood.

I see "Possessions" as a very egoistical song. It's about me having a baby for my own sake. About cildren as possessions, objects, things...

And still today, while visiting a babycart store, I had problems envisioning myself as a father. The concept of creating life is extremely hard to grasp. Imagine being God. How the hell can one do that? No, until they are born, children are things, possessions. There is no real emotion yet. Only practical things that need to be addressed; economics, logistics, do we need a bigger apartment... Things like that. Real things.

And I'm trying. I've felt the baby move inside it's mother. I've "communicated" with it by tapping the mother's stomach and felt it react to that. But I can't envision it. I can't see before me, how it will look, act, sound or smell. I don't even know what sex it is. Before I know these things, how can there be an emotional tie between us?

I prepare for fatherhood every day. But how prepared can I be for the moment we meet for the first time? When the life we have created opens it's eyes and finds itself in a new world? As a new person. As a part of me, but still unique. There's no way of knowing how this will be. It's a leap of faith.

Faith in that I can be a father. That I am ready to fully commit to this newcomer. That I will not become bored with it after a couple of weeks.

These are exciting times for me and my wife. We're happy and full of anticipation. Together, we fit the profile of "Babysong" perfectly, because our happiness probably makes us look quite silly. And none of us can quite grasp the enormity of what we are in the middle of, but we know in our hearts that "babies are good"...

Maybe "possessions" is reason, while "babysong" is emotion?

I don't think either song has positive implications. The riff at the end of Babysong is dark and melancholic. The lyrics in the verse are cynical, while the lyrics in the chorus seem painfully truthful. It seems to me that he is justifying his inclination to not have kids.

But goddamn it, I hate analyzing his lyrics. My wife can't even listen to this song because of the lyrics...

I like Babysong. I can see how it's related to Possessions. In Possessions it seems to me that the guy is having an argument with his wife and it's that whole, "We need to take this to the next level so let's have a baby" thing. It's not so much to have a baby, but feel better.

There's some of that in Babysong, too. The lyric that says, "Fatherhood rights all of your wrongs." I take that to mean that if you're a jerk you can become a nice guy by being a good daddy. Or maybe make up for a bad childhood by giving a good one to your kid.

Being a dad, I can tell you that having babies is good. But, you better want them. And, you better be prepared to love them. Babies need you. They need to be held, to be talked to, to be cared for. That's why they cry, because it's the only way they have of communicating need. They need it for a long time, too. I don't agree with people who say you have to "teach" kids to sleep through the night, or to sleep in their own beds or potty-trained. I mean, yes, you can help them. But, they get their on their own time. We never "taught" our daughter to sleep through the night. She just started doing it. We decided, instead, to meet her needs as they came up. Kids, under 5, generally, are not manipulative. The need. And we are supposed to give.

Sorry, it's a big deal to me. As a father and a teacher, I see a lot of kids every day. Most "problems" with children could be solved very simply. By and large, kids want to be loved. That's it. And, to me, loving them means meeting their needs. It's simple and yet complex. Kids need appropriate affection from their parents. Withhold it and they will seek it elsewhere in less healthy ways. But, it's especially important when they are babies. The first three years of life are crucial in development. Hold your baby. They were meant to be held. They were meant to be close to us. You can "teach" them when they get older. But, in those first years of life, hold them, love them. When a baby cries and you pick it up and feed it, or change it, or whatever it wants, (and it's usually one of those three) then you're teaching it that it can count on you. It grows attached to you. It forms a natural, healthy bond and learns that it can trust. This is extremely important. Babies don't need to cry. They cry because they need. Meet those needs promptly and the baby will have a much better life.

By the way, this is called, mostly, attachment theory in psychology. Have a look at it. Those first three to four years of life determine so much. I didn't believe it at first but having seen it at work with my daughter I can't argue anymore.

Devin said in an interview:
The most beautiful track on Synchestra is for me "Baby Song". It's the opposite of "Possessions" on "Alien". That song shows sixteen-year-olds vision on having children. For people of that age, the use of children is nil, they're only a burden.
"Baby Song" has the vision of a thirty-two-year-old who realises that having children can be good.

So there we have it!