I have a feeling that from here on out, nearly everything Dev does will have a positive vibe.

If I listen to the song alone, I skip the Vai-ending, but I need it as a transition to Babysong.

This. It doesn't work otherwise.

Treason!

The Vai ending is one of the best bits of the song, if you guys don't understand that then...well.. you're dumb! It's amazing. Vais alien phrasing is great and fits the song very well imo. I hope Dev works with Vai in future...... imagine Vai on a Ziltoid album

Nah, it definitely isn't one of the best bits of the song. It detracts from everything that makes the song great, IMO. It goes from being a Devin Townsend epic to a fairly bland Steve Vai noodling break.

Vai on a Ziltoid record would sound like Vai on a Ziltoid record. I'd rather Steve Vai just make his own records.

Nah, it definitely isn't one of the best bits of the song. It detracts from everything that makes the song great, IMO. It goes from being a Devin Townsend epic to a fairly bland Steve Vai noodling break.

Vai on a Ziltoid record would sound like Vai on a Ziltoid record. I'd rather Steve Vai just make his own records.

I used to know virtually nothing of VAI or his sound/ style other than he's a great guitarist. When I first heard it, I didn't even guess that it was another guitarist, just thought it was Dev... shows how much I knew. So perhaps that affected it.

Then again, maybe it's people with a knowledge of Vai that have the bias. If you went into the song expecting to hear something non-dev and out of place, then you're more likely to hear that as oppose to the music itself.

Since then I've learned a lot more. But I maintain that it fits the song well and sounds great for now And I think Vais great sounds and super technique would suit Ziltoid very well if he was to play from a Ziltoidian perspective.

I've listened to a load of Vai over the years... not really much of a fan of his music TBH.

Actually I heard sex and religion before hearing any townsend releases....

anyone, on topic, i actually like vai's solo in the track.

yeah.

Its one of the best bits of the song!
Sacrilege.

Without the solo, the song would not have the same sense of closure....it's epic as hell and the solo resolves it quite nicely IMO.

Dev, are you thinking of finding a 'new' drummer for Epicloud? I mean, RVP is great, and knows how to hold the energy that your music requires ...i guess i feel somebody new/fresh would compliment a 'new direction' ...IMO Duris, Mike and Dirk provide a new flavor of Devy goodness. Decon rocks from start to finish, dont get me wrong, but i, just speaking for myself here, can easily tell which song has which drummer, Dirk's playing is far more dynamic...(i guess different compression techniques may have possibly been used).

I cant help but feel after such a diverse, successful project as the DTP...that the logical choice would be to keep experimenting with new dynamics from here on in..

apologies for the decon talk...i think it was necessary when trying to explain the reasoning behind my 'Epicloud' question.

i'm gonna hash out my opinie on thedrummer here

i think each drummer suited each track/album

epicloud, forma what has been said, sounds like rvp territory... possibly duris, if he doesn;t mind playing on it (i get the impression he's a bluesy jazz kinda dude, maybe not for epicloud)

I can't wait until we hear more.

I'm getting more and more excited for this. I think one of the best things about DT's work is that, throughout the vastly different albums, and styles it still has the Devin Townsend twist. I think this is going to be ... Epic.

The atmosphere and wall of sound is what we want.
And there's no point in having an album called Epicloud if you have neither.

Unless he changes the title.

I'm talking about the "atmospheric" bits in Ki just used to fill up CD time. Also, Deconstruction was overproduced, for a Devin Townsend album. That's just my (most likely wrong) opinion.

if you're referring to bits at the end of songs that seem to drag on, then i don't necessarily agree in regards to Ki but i do feel that way w/ terria (beginning of olive, the end of mountain & the fluke). haven't heard decon yet and who knows how much of epicloud is even written so how can we begin to speculate which will be better?

Not that I'm a musician or a producer or anything, but I bet those parts are the most fun to make. Artists like Dev make atmospheric stuff like that quite often, mostly covered by lots of layers of vocals, bass, guitars, drums, and so on, so you can't really hear much of it... I can see why he would devote some time on his albums to the atmospheric stuff only, and even entire albums. And honestly, I love it. :3

Seems overly self indulgent and self centered to me. I get artistic integrity, but then there's a little thing (which appears in some genres more often than not) called musical masturbation. That's what I got out of those "atmospheric" bits in Ki.

I understand you. I respect your opinion and I am sure the others here do as well, even if they have implied otherwise. You like more concise work. I am sure there will be simpler and less layered, manic work ahead, and Dev has even said as much.

That being said, I have the exact opposite opinion. I feel Ki, so far in the DTP vein, is the strongest record he has done since Terria. I am just wired differently, I guess. I prefer texture.

I don't respect other peoples opinions so much because I believe most things either work or don't, and that if you have enough experience and a good ear, you know the "truth" of the matter.

The problem is that some people know something is not right, but they explain it wrong or badly which creates confusion. With regards to what catharsis wrote, the beginning is olive is a good example, it's both bad and good. No one minds a long long and drawn out intro, so long as you can hear it and it makes reasonable sense.

The beginning of Olives doesn't make much sense and is inaudible; fact. And it doesn't not work in a good mysterious way, it just doesn't work. It only starts to make sense once the awesome chord and music kicks in and you get that it's some TV advert or something Dev has recorded and he's made a song out of the word "Olive" with it repeating in the background. But up until that point, it's just sort of quiet mumbling stuff that is meaningless to both fans and non-fans alike. I have this problem throughout a lot of his music.

Production is not an issue for Dev, he's never had a bad production, I think he probably has the best sounding gear and setup he's ever had, its his use of layering and all the tons of mumbling stuff in the background that is sometimes useless imo. He even admitted himself you often "can't really hear" it. Well if you can't really hear it, what is the point in it being there? If it's not adding, it is surely detracting.

It might be some great revelation to Dev and the band, but unless you are in on the inside significance, it's meaningless unless it's clear and audible.

[Octillus]

I hate opinions that are presented as universal truths. Those don't make much sense to me

I...don't know what to say.

It might be some great revelation to Dev and the band, but unless you are in on the inside significance, it's meaningless unless it's clear and audible.

lol — the fact that you don't want to turn it up to hear what's going on and, especially, that you don't care for subtlety in music makes me not respect your opinion. maybe headphones would help.