Someone should set up a 'Epicloud V Epiclouder Poll' thread.

Ok, "Heatwave" is amazing, but Devy really should stop taking so much from other songs. The verses of Heatwave are taken directly from "Drivin' My Life Away." A surprising amount of "Radial Highway" is lifted from "Radar Love." "Resolve!" is that one Ginger Wildheart song. Still, it's impossible not to love Heatwave. As somebody else said, I expected Epicloud to sound a lot more along the lines of songs like Heatwave, Where We Belong, Kingdom and such than it did. I guess it's because Dev sold it on Twitter when he was writing it as all "heavy, romantic, and ethereal"...He even called it some sort of "metal Titanic" several times. So songs like "More!" and "Grace" and "Lucky Animals" were...um...unexpected?

He's inspired by things; what's wrong with that?

[Octillus]

Am I the only one here who absolutely loves Epicloud but Epiclouder not so much?

Nah, but there's a pretty defined split. Epicloud's 8/10 for me, epiclouder, I've only heard since the sf show, but is where I am in my headspace with the music right now. Right time right moment, so I don't want to overrate it but I think it's perfect. Might breach my top 3 dev albums, but I need to digest it further

He's inspired by things; what's wrong with that?

Nothing. But plagiarism can get annoying if it's done too much. He's a good enough artist that he doesn't need to be cut and pasting other songs into his own (Hell, he's my favourite artist) as much as he does.

Regardless, I still wish Heatwave coulda fit somehow into the main album.

[Octillus]

He's inspired by things; what's wrong with that?

Nothing. But plagiarism can get annoying if it's done too much. He's a good enough artist that he doesn't need to be cut and pasting other songs into his own (Hell, he's my favourite artist) as much as he does.

Regardless, I still wish Heatwave coulda fit somehow into the main album.

So 3 instances, when one of them was an artist he used to work with and almost everyone else in the music industry does as well, makes him a plagiarist? You do realize that over 60 songs have been released since 2009 right?

I'm not sure what Dev does is actually plagiarism in the legal sense - but then again I thought the Coldplay/Satriani songs where rather different and Coldplay lost! Dev is also vocal about using 'structures' and stuff from other songs which I do think forgives a lot of it. I think what the poster meant was that given how talented and prolific Devin is, why doesn't he stop using even the occasional very close 'influence'. I see everyones point of view here! Besides every time he does it I've no clue of the original because it's never songs I'd listen to! I probably have more of a problem with Devin plagiarising himself. It was fine from Ki-to-Ghost because of the nature of the project but re-recording old songs (which he's planning to do) and using little parts of riffs, runs and vocal melodies over and over may get a little irritating in the future for me.

Dev has stated numerous times, Save Our Now being an example, that he asks the other artists usually to use parts of their songs in his. And tons of artists sample other people's songs; it's not plagiarism.

Well, plagiarism was the wrong word, but you get the point. I just think his habit of rehashing his own material (and other people's) so much does more bad for his work than good. And whether or not you think it's a good or a bad thing, he does do it a lot. I mean, he put two snippets of two of his past works in one song, within seconds of each other (Color Your World). I can't think of any other artists who have done that. It's just in instances like that I think it's a bit too much really.

But, c'mon, guys, I was just offering up a bit of criticism - if I wasn't a massive HevyDevy fan, I wouldn't be on this forum, would I?

So today is my birthday, and I'll be damned, My Epicloud deluxe cd with teddy bear arrived today.

I LOVE Epicloud.

For some reason, I figured that disc 2 would be demos of songs on Epicloud. So I really didn't give it a second thought.
When I opened the cd, I noticed that the songs on disc 2 had all different titles than Epicloud, so I ripped it, and started listening
about eight thirty this morning....SO....

Again, I LOVE Epicloud... but disc 2 has hit me. Hard. Reading the liner notes, I'm perplexed that Devin considered these songs the way he does.

I am 100% in love with this "Epiclouder" album. I don't know what else to say.

So today is my birthday, and I'll be damned, My Epicloud deluxe cd with teddy bear arrived today.

I LOVE Epicloud.

For some reason, I figured that disc 2 would be demos of songs on Epicloud. So I really didn't give it a second thought.
When I opened the cd, I noticed that the songs on disc 2 had all different titles than Epicloud, so I ripped it, and started listening
about eight thirty this morning....SO....

Again, I LOVE Epicloud... but disc 2 has hit me. Hard. Reading the liner notes, I'm perplexed that Devin considered these songs the way he does.

I am 100% in love with this "Epiclouder" album. I don't know what else to say.

WHAT WHAT WHAT

You got it today? SWEET. Because that's what I ordered, and I want it.

Yes, Sir.

First thing this morning.

Well, plagiarism was the wrong word, but you get the point. I just think his habit of rehashing his own material (and other people's) so much does more bad for his work than good. And whether or not you think it's a good or a bad thing, he does do it a lot. I mean, he put two snippets of two of his past works in one song, within seconds of each other (Color Your World). I can't think of any other artists who have done that. It's just in instances like that I think it's a bit too much really.

Annihilator maybe the worst. There's literally no point in listening to anything after King of the Kill. Sometimes Devin can do it in a cool way - there's some song on Epicloud(er) were he does the metallic clinking sound at the beginning of Velvet Kevorkian that I thought was good - and it was subtle too. Other times it can be annoying though, like Sunset, Hyperdrive and Hyperdrive!. Maybe he doesn't feel that he utilised a riff or idea right first time and tries again, but personally I think doing that works to the detriment of all sources.

To add: When it's other sources I'm happier since I rarely know the original music but I did find his two Pink Floyd-ish songs slightly annoying (Little Pig and Two Weeks) because I'm usually thinking of the originals during playback, and PF songs are very well known to metalheads. Although in fairness I'm not sure how aware he is when composing the tracks. Also, the last riff in Two Weeks is identical to an Anathema song on their Silent Enigma album (Nocturnal Emission I think) but I'd be very surprised if he ever heard it, so I'm sure there's some coincidence sometimes.

[Octillus]

Eh, I suppose. Dude's been self-referencing almost from the get go, and certainly likes his particular progressions. I'm happy with it in its current state, and the winks and nods to other musicians he's been inspired by don't particularly bother me, because it's never more than slight chunks of his material. That's just my opinion though.

Not that I'd recommend any artist 'borrow' bits from other songs but I think with Devin, it's more of a nod in their direction. It's quite respectful in a way, as longs it doesn't encompass the whole song then I think it's fine. If you're a big enough fan of any band you'll begin to nitpick at certain chord progressions and vocal patterns that they use a lot. Soulfly did a song called Touching the Void which had the exact same riff that Under the Sun by Black Sabbath had. The Hypocrisy/Pain singer, Peter Tagtren uses the same vocal and guitar patterns a lot. It's just a distinct thing. Dev's had so many songs out that I think it's more forgivable? if that makes sense...you know, he's been around a long time and in the songwriting process, things are gonna crop up quite a bit. I think he remains one of the most unique and surprising songwriters there are right now. There's not really a moment I thought anything was particularly 'samey' when I've listened to stuff from other albums by him on shuffle or whatever. The inclusion of 'gotta keep rollin'' in heatwave kind of shows he's lifted it from somewhere else, he's not tried to hide it or cover it up or anything. Like I said, not something I'd recommend but after god knows how many songs he's recorded, it's not surprising, or something I look down upon completely.

Sorry for the ramble !