But yeah, Linux Sad thing however is that (at least where I live) you can't buy a computer without Windows pre-installed, so you're paying for it anyway even if you'll never use it.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. To my understanding, if you have the knowledge, one of the best things you can do is run dual Windows/Linux. Not sure which you'd run as a sub, though.

Macs are extremely useful for any kind of purposes.

Artistically, sure. Windows can run those just as efficiently if you bother to learn how. And once you factor in web design or software availability, windows gets the edge.

Best of all, Mac users never have to worry about spyware, adware, viruses, trojans, or other malware. I had never even heard of those things, save for viruses, until well into my years of using a computer.

Not yet they don't. That's because 95% of the people browsing the internet are using a PC. So all the trojans, viruses, adware, and spyware designed right now are predominantly for the PC. Wait until mac get's a better percentage of users and see how much malware you have to deal with...

(Not meant as a flame, so please don't take it as one.)

Lack of choice = lack of freedom
Lack of updates = lack of security

And there most certainly is malware for Mac. When iWorks got updated to 09, there was a warez version downloaded by millions of people that was stacked with malware.
Mac users just don't have firewalls or virus scanners telling them they have the stuff. Most malware doesn't attack and break the computer it's installed on, because it would kill itself. It uses the internet connection to multiply, and when time is ready attack major servers in order to break them. Or collect your personal data, and sends them out.


Macs are useful for any kind of purpose... Paper weight, door stop, foot stool, coaster for your drink...

I like your way of thinking

Whatever you guys, use PC's - I use Macs. It doesn't matter. But let's be honest, Macs are not prone to as much shit as PC's are. They work well, and they're user friendly for computer whizs' and noobs alike.

I guess you don't own iPods then... or iPhones? Or use iTunes? I'm just sayin'...

(Not meant as a flame, so please don't take it as one.)

No burnage taken.

You make some good arguments. I would agree that if Apple were the absolute mainstream, there would probably be as many or more beasties out there for them.


Well, no use in keeping the Mac vs. Windows debate goin, to each their own.
Random thought:
learning Anesthetize on the ol' bass - it's going pretty well. I play it an octave higher since I'm not about to de-tune to C. It's a fun song though. Once you get into part 3, it's like *whew* I'm outta the woods - I got through it.

I have an ipod...and if it werent for ease of use I would probably have a Zune...and if my ipod dies on me anytime soon I will be getting a Zune to see which I like better.

I guess you don't own iPods then... or iPhones? Or use iTunes? I'm just sayin'...

I use Zune, a razor (broke as fuck, otherwise might have an iphone, they're better than blackberry's... unless someone knows a better phone), and Foobar2000. Foobar is a great example of a windows program that's way more complex than itunes, but if you take the time to learn it, is utterly incredible (especially with FLAC).

This is ridiculous: [youtube]rP5y7yp06n0[/youtube]

Random thought:
learning Anesthetize on the ol' bass - it's going pretty well. I play it an octave higher since I'm not about to de-tune to C. It's a fun song though. Once you get into part 3, it's like *whew* I'm outta the woods - I got through it.

That's my favorite Porcupine Tree song. When the album first came out, I spent an hour experimenting with different tones and distortion effects for the alternating guitar riff part after Lifeson's solo.

Random thought:
learning Anesthetize on the ol' bass - it's going pretty well. I play it an octave higher since I'm not about to de-tune to C. It's a fun song though. Once you get into part 3, it's like *whew* I'm outta the woods - I got through it.

Not de-tuning is weak. If you have more than one bass, do it. All of my guitars are in different tunings. That's why I have a bunch of guitars.

Not de-tuning is weak. If you have more than one bass, do it. All of my guitars are in different tunings. That's why I have a bunch of guitars.

I have a friend who swears on the fact that de-tuning a guitar to C isn't worth it unless you alter the neck. That might be guitar noobish, but I don't know much about guitars, so is he right?

Something I'll never get over is a few months ago, this dude I know bought an Orange amp, then sold it a few weeks later when he didn't like the sound. But he only wanted to play Linkin Park, Van Halen, and Iron Maiden type stuff on it. No blues-rock? No doom metal?

D-tuning your guitar CAN have adverse effects on the neck, over a long period of time. The necks are set up for a certain tension, and lowering the tuning drops that tension.

I use Zune, a razor (broke as fuck, otherwise might have an iphone, they're better than blackberry's... unless someone knows a better phone), and Foobar2000. Foobar is a great example of a windows program that's way more complex than itunes, but if you take the time to learn it, is utterly incredible (especially with FLAC).

That's pretty awesome actually. Wonder how much that costs though

Random thought:
learning Anesthetize on the ol' bass - it's going pretty well. I play it an octave higher since I'm not about to de-tune to C. It's a fun song though. Once you get into part 3, it's like *whew* I'm outta the woods - I got through it.

That's my favorite Porcupine Tree song. When the album first came out, I spent an hour experimenting with different tones and distortion effects for the alternating guitar riff part after Lifeson's solo.

Oh cool! I love all Tree, but that one has a special place in my heart Believe it or not, I like the last section the most. The whole song rocks, I love the chunkiness, but the end is so peaceful. Did you ever get the tone you were looking for?

Not de-tuning is weak. If you have more than one bass, do it. All of my guitars are in different tunings. That's why I have a bunch of guitars.

Nah dude. I don't like tuning down to C - the strings get somewhat slack, and it's a hassle to tune it back up, back down, back up.... And I wouldn't detune the fretless bass, because that would be silly. I have a POG though, that takes care of the detuning dilemma. You can play in standard an octave up, and let the POG drop an octave for you. It's pretty sweet. Oh, but I don't mind drop-D. That's fine, in fact I rather like drop-D when it's appropriate.


@ islandsinthesky: No waaaaayy! I hear those are great amplifiers! I've never used one, but I've heard nothing but good things. And aesthetically, they look awesome! Was it tube? I don't know all the kinds they make...

I guess you don't own iPods then... or iPhones? Or use iTunes? I'm just sayin'...

Not that I subscribe to all that anti-Apple stuff, but you know, it isn't that hard to not use their products. There's quite a choice on the market, contrary to popular belief that every mp3 player is an "iPod"

Random thought:
learning Anesthetize on the ol' bass - it's going pretty well. I play it an octave higher since I'm not about to de-tune to C. It's a fun song though. Once you get into part 3, it's like *whew* I'm outta the woods - I got through it.

Changing the string gauge is usually enough. At least for me, I've changed tunings of my bass and guitar from standard to A without fiddling with neck tension (only obligatory screwing with floyd rose in guitar - sadly inevitable), just replacing stock 9-42 strings in guitar with 14-58 and 45-105 in bass with 4 lower strings from 5-stringer set (I think thickest one is .135, barely fitting in the bridge). I know, it's lazy, but I don't have any cases of banana necks so far

Pretty sure it was tube. But it was stupid of him. Not to say Orange amps are limited, but there's certain sounds your going for when you have one...

I don't know why people get huffy over brands. I guess consumerism is fun, though. I have a Mac--personal preference--and I've had fewer problems with this machine than I did with a PC. To be fair, though, I've never had an up-to-date (if there exists such a thing) PC, so the problems I had were often related to the thing being from the Jurassic Period of Computers.

Anyway, since iPhones came up, I have to rant. Sure, it's neat. But I get the feeling it's supposed to be an all-in-one device (at least that's what their advertising throws at me), and in that regard, it's trash. Apple (and don't think for a moment that Windows, Sony, etc. aren't well aware of this business strategy also) has a tendency to gradually release friendlier, more efficient technologies at a rate lower than their development curve. They have great engineers, so either they're horrible at managing production, or they enjoy milking every single penny from their devoted following. For some reason, I suspect it's the latter. The iPhone comes in a maximum of 16 GB, correct? Some all-in-one device (it'll only cost you $300, too!). I have no pity for those that gobbled up iPhones with only 4 GB of storage. My point is that it seems like Apple is always trying to play the part of the revolutionary, but only ever takes a half-step forward.

So until Apple (or some other company) steps up to the plate, and finally decides that their engineering actually can produce a touch-screen, internet-ready, coffee-making, sexual-favor-providing cellular telephone for a reasonable price (that isn't dictated by the people who actually enjoy those incredibly idiotic "I'm a Mac" commercials), I think I'll pass.

Maybe I'm just cheap.

[swervedriver]

I don't know why people get huffy over brands. I guess consumerism is fun, though. I have a Mac--personal preference--and I've had fewer problems with this machine than I did with a PC. To be fair, though, I've never had an up-to-date (if there exists such a thing) PC, so the problems I had were often related to the thing being from the Jurassic Period of Computers.

Anyway, since iPhones came up, I have to rant. Sure, it's neat. But I get the feeling it's supposed to be an all-in-one device (at least that's what their advertising throws at me), and in that regard, it's trash. Apple (and don't think for a moment that Windows, Sony, etc. aren't well aware of this business strategy also) has a tendency to gradually release friendlier, more efficient technologies at a rate lower than their development curve. They have great engineers, so either they're horrible at managing production, or they enjoy milking every single penny from their devoted following. For some reason, I suspect it's the latter. The iPhone comes in a maximum of 16 GB, correct? Some all-in-one device (it'll only cost you $300, too!). I have no pity for those that gobbled up iPhones with only 4 GB of storage. My point is that it seems like Apple is always trying to play the part of the revolutionary, but only ever takes a half-step forward.

So until Apple (or some other company) steps up to the plate, and finally decides that their engineering actually can produce a touch-screen, internet-ready, coffee-making, sexual-favor-providing cellular telephone for a reasonable price (that isn't dictated by the people who actually enjoy those incredibly idiotic "I'm a Mac" commercials), I think I'll pass.

Maybe I'm just cheap.

No, I agree with you there. I've been looking at these all-in-one things (although briefly), but there doesn't seem to be one that can do everything well. I have an old mp3 player (USB stick with 248 Mb free space which I filled with music), an old phone (which is randomly turning itself off) and an old camera (which is very slow, chunky and loves to eat batteries). If I could find a decent replacement in one machine for all of these then I'd have it already, but for now I think I may just be better off with replacing all 3 separately. For the same price I bet I could find much better alternatives than if I were to go with such a "smart-phone".

Not de-tuning is weak. If you have more than one bass, do it. All of my guitars are in different tunings. That's why I have a bunch of guitars.

I have a friend who swears on the fact that de-tuning a guitar to C isn't worth it unless you alter the neck. That might be guitar noobish, but I don't know much about guitars, so is he right?

Depends on how well the guitar is set up to begin with. My band's drummer replaced the elements in his Squier and put on bigger gauge strings so he could put it in drop C (for me to play), but the strings kept clattering against the frets. So there I did spend some time to get rid of that annoying fretbuzzing by altering the neck and some bridge adjustments. It's not perfect still because I'm no real expert either, but considering it's a cheap-ass Squier it plays and sounds pretty decent now.

I guess you don't own iPods then... or iPhones? Or use iTunes? I'm just sayin'...

Not that I subscribe to all that anti-Apple stuff, but you know, it isn't that hard to not use their products. There's quite a choice on the market, contrary to popular belief that every mp3 player is an "iPod"

Exactly! I have a Zen (Mosaic, I love it it's so pretty and cute) and a really spiffy Sony Ericsson phone. I use Foobar. I don't think it's that difficult to not use their products. I've heard nothing but bad things about their aftercare service (primarily that everyone who uses their products requires it). And it's mostly sub-par quality all around - Leechface's iPod has a really tinny sound in comparison with my Zen and it doesn't have a built-in speaker. iTunes was stoppy-starty and crap on my computer (and it needs a bazillion updates). My sister has an iPhone and eh... I dunno. Her having one in itself would put me off buying one.

I guess you don't own iPods then... or iPhones? Or use iTunes? I'm just sayin'...

I don't use an iPod, I have an Archos MP3 player with 20GB of storage which I bought for a price of a 4GB iPod Nano at the time. Besides, I don't have to use iTunes.

The iPhone has some serious shortcomings. Especially the first generation, but the second still does. I'm talking about recording video, the limited uses of the GPS, the build quality, the price, and Apple's licensing policies.
I have a Sony Ericsson C702 as my phone. It can call (OK iPhone can do that), sends text messages (OK iPhone can do that, even to multiple recipients since just over a year now!), take photos (3.2MP, better than iPhone), and GPS (using free tools), and it can surf the web in case of emergency. That's all I needed.
I'll probably get some Android phone in the future, but to be honest, right now Android isn't quite there yet either.

And for playing music, I use Amarok because it's the best music player ever! It does have iPod support should I get one. Oh and it's free, open source even!

I'm happy to inform you all that I don't use anything Apple - can't even play a quicktime video Heck I don't even eat the damn things!


Personally I'm a Linux user, but it's sort of a hobby for me. I like to break things, then fix them again. But I'm damn sure it's very possible people who are less tech-savvy to use Linux, the *buntu family is great for that purpose.

I use Zune, a razor (broke as fuck, otherwise might have an iphone, they're better than blackberry's... unless someone knows a better phone), and Foobar2000. Foobar is a great example of a windows program that's way more complex than itunes, but if you take the time to learn it, is utterly incredible (especially with FLAC).

That's pretty awesome actually. Wonder how much that costs though

I may be able to help a bit... Zunes are between $100 (4GB) and $250 (120GB), Razr's were free with just about any phone contract (they're the best selling phone ever, better than those old Nokias) and Foobar is free. So that's about the price of a pair of (proprietary) iPod headphones!