Have a happy birthday, Josiah!

Thanks guys, will do

~Josiah

Restringing my 8 string was both a task and refreshing. Finally dont have old strings on it, and they seem to feel much better than the set that came with it.

This is my friends band Roxy Swain: http://www.myspace.com/roxyswain

This is where you can buy their 4 song ep for 99 cents each. That's $4. That's like 2.75 euros: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/roxyswain

^ I dig her voice

Okay, so this thought isn't all that random. It comes from the "Addicted" thread where everyone's vomiting their idealistic, artist-centric view of what is and is not acceptable regarding leaks, comments, what have you. I don't want to clog that thread with the torrents of nonsense that may potentially follow this. But it annoys me.

It's not because I think whoever asked straight-up for a leak was justified in doing so or that that sort of behavior isn't inappropriate. Indeed, saying "hey, man, I bet I'll dig that--can I have it now for free? Promise I'll pay you sometime if you give me some other stuff [maybe a bonus disc?]," is anything but polite. But all of a sudden this jumps to a slew of new issues. The first being, is it acceptable to pirate music? Some say sure, it falls under fair use; others say it's morally wrong; still others vote for the "if you like it, buy it" routine. It doesn't really matter, honestly. Que sera sera. I don't find it all that objectionable, especially in the case of a band that has plenty of success and is glorified past the point of honesty (Metallica?). But if I feel very strongly about the music or the message behind it or whatever--sure, why not pay? I'd love to be able to perpetuate this. But here's the catch.

It's art.

Nothing more, nothing less. It's an artist's choice to attempt to survive in this fucked-up, achievement-oriented, capitalistic society just by doing what he feels is aesthetically pleasing. I'd love to be a composer and do nothing else, but I understand that there is serious risk associated with that choice and survival. You do what you have to do to provide primarily for yourself, and secondly for your dependents. Not what you want to do. I'm not saying that Devin should get a job or whatever--it doesn't matter; it's his choice. But if you're willing to stake your livelihood on your ability to create and to successfully market your creativity, you have to be prepared to deal with the challenges. The game is bent, you say? Think outside the box. It's your job.

There are a couple other little things that are likely the bits that tipped me overboard with this whole frustrated irritation. First, there's this:

Anyone who busted out 2 months before Ki was released on this forum talking about it is kinda lame. You know Dev posts and reads his own forum, it's a slap in the face to the work he's done. Yeah music is made to be heard, but you wouldn't steal food out of his mouth, would you?

This is a profoundly stupid statement. I abhor the colorization of perspectives in this way. How, may I ask (rhetorically), is it lame to discuss an album? Time is entirely irrelevant. The artistic statement is complete, so its reception, regardless of marketing delay, ought to be either welcomed or dreaded. From what I read, most of the "discussion" of Ki was "I love this album and I would wholly love to bear its children" or some variant. This goes back to an aspect of professional artistry. If you create, you want to know other opinions on your creations; humans seek approval. It's not a slap in the face to discuss the art--it's a slap in the face to discuss the value of the art as an issue more important than the art itself. Fuck these people who can't seem to wrap their heads around music as anything other than an industry.

I have more to say, but I get the feeling that at this point, I'm just preceding an onslaught of moronically inattentive "tl;dr" statements. Fuck it. Forget I said anything.

[EphelDuath666]

downloading is a bit of a difficult issue I guess because many people see it from different angles. To me the download sites used to be like shopping lists. When I used to download I did not buy one CD that made me regret buying it. It's not like I want to rip off anyone and I do like to buy CD's and am scared of this whole 'CD's will die and everything will be digital' development and everyone knows that I do like to buy lots of CD's too. Anyways, now I am not really downloading much or anything at all anymore (there's really just very few exceptions) and bought quite a shitload of CD's over the past months. And here's the problem...I regret spending money for several of them. Like for example, and this may break some peoples' hearts, the new Riverside Album or the new Hacride Album, as well as the new Pure Reason Revolution Album, to name a few. I just find them boring as hell. But that ain't the problem. Different strokes for different folks and all that, can't like everything. The problem is that I didn't prelisten to them and just bought them. That alone is like 50 Euros or so that I regret spending, which is quite a bit of money and it's just few examples. And that would not have happened if I had downloaded them just to prelisten to them. Don't know if I make any sense, heh.

Thank you, Entropy, for saying what I've felt about that forum for a long time.

I only post there once in a great while if I feel I have something that could contribute to the topic or possibly a conversation piece for Devin.

There are far too many "fan boys" roaming around here with their "OMGZ JUZT JIIIIIZZED ALL OVER MY COMPUTER SCREEN TO KI!1" posts. (Which Dev himself said bothered him)

I wholeheartedly agree, Entropy.

[Octillus]

NEED... MOAR... INK NEEDLES JAMMED INTO ME.

Or something of the like.

Ugh. Apologies for getting pissed off at that idiotic post and essentially blowing the downloading discussion floodgates to kingdom fucking come. Wasn't the intention to spark a giant forum-wide shitstorm.

Just to get my stance on this, I usually wouldn't persecute anyone for downloading anything, I do it myself from time to time, though not as much as I used to. Entropy I really wish you'd gone on with that post cos it was pretty nicely summing up the logical points that can be made on the discussion.

I lost my cool on that particular downloading note because I just found it to really be the most idiotic thing I've ever read on here. I mean asking a band member to leak an album on their own forum? His/Her post was such a mess of stupidity and ignorance, in my opinion, and I've been in a fucking foul mood all day and just kinda went mad there.

Also, there has been, naturally, an awful lot of discussion recently about Dev getting back on the road. And I think everybody registered on this forum is delighted with that news and are looking forward to it immensely. Every time the download argument looms up on this forum it always, always reminds me of this, and it seems really relevant now:

There are a lot of other factors that downloading effects that people don't even realise. One is when a band is trying to further themselves, everyone they approach will check the "Soundscan". This is a service that tracks album sales. If a band is looking for a distributor, the company checks the soundscan. Band is looking to tour, promoter checks the soundscan. Whether that band gets the contract, the tour, what they are paid for that tour all depends on the soundscan. Downloads do not apply to this. People can be flippant about it all they want but downloading is making things EXTREMELY difficult for bands to operate.

Want to share a file or two? Sure. But "I support music by listening to it. Not buying it. It's all love" is crap. It's disrespectful and offensive. We bust our asses for 12 years making music and and you think it's okay that we're not compensated? Here's an idea... How about you go to work every day, overtime, for 12 years and let your boss only pay you half your salary.

I know people won't have read that cos it's years old and yada yada but I'm just saying this is why I went a bit nuts. Because it was a brazen post and y'know, the whole download thing really can put the shits up tour hopes. And Devin always seems so damn bummed out when it comes to discussing sales and downloading, it just seemed like such a slap in the face to ask an artist to leak his own material. And obviously, yeah, I'm biased. I accept entirely that these are the risks artists take, but hell, I like Devin. I'd love him to sell millions. He seems to be a cool guy and he makes utterly gorgeous music that has pretty much soundtracked the last few years of my life, which have definitely been the most important thus far. So there's a spot in the ticker there for him and I get a bit pissy when people are blatant assholes about, well, basically stealing the work he busted his ass to make for us.

And of course after my apology for starting the shitstorm, I then add to it. Ah, what a wonderful circle jerk. Can of worms, anyone? ... No?

Entropy I really wish you'd gone on with that post cos it was pretty nicely summing up the logical points that can be made on the discussion.

I'd really rather not. I don't care if someone quotes it, but I don't start "discussions" (read: arguments) in the Devin Townsend forum anymore, because it's absolutely pointless. There are so many slack-jawed, mouth-breathing trend-followers that only frequent that forum, and I don't think it's worth to try and impress upon them any semblance of logic or discussion.

There are a lot of other factors that downloading effects that people don't even realise. One is when a band is trying to further themselves, everyone they approach will check the "Soundscan". This is a service that tracks album sales. If a band is looking for a distributor, the company checks the soundscan. Band is looking to tour, promoter checks the soundscan. Whether that band gets the contract, the tour, what they are paid for that tour all depends on the soundscan. Downloads do not apply to this. People can be flippant about it all they want but downloading is making things EXTREMELY difficult for bands to operate.

Want to share a file or two? Sure. But "I support music by listening to it. Not buying it. It's all love" is crap. It's disrespectful and offensive. We bust our asses for 12 years making music and and you think it's okay that we're not compensated? Here's an idea... How about you go to work every day, overtime, for 12 years and let your boss only pay you half your salary.

You're right; I haven't read it before now. One of the disadvantages of not having bothered joining the forum until I was well into Devin's music. Anyway, I could totally understand how downloading would impact the lives and success of the artists being downloaded. I can see where she's coming from, and it strikes quite a sympathetic chord. Still, that kind of sneaks around my point--it's a choice they made. Living the artist's life is typically living an impoverished life (and hasn't it created some beautiful art?). Hell, I almost made that choice; I chickened out and decided to get a "real" job and pursue music while I've got a steady income. So I don't think what Tracy said is totally true. Work and art seem like two totally different things to me at this point, and I frequently have trouble reconciling the two. I don't consider writing and performing music to be a job or profession--I consider it to be art, expression, and something in which I can become fully engulfed. But the way things are set up by the powers that be, art is a luxury. It's nonessential. It doesn't contribute to the "machine," to grab a term from Pink Floyd. I don't necessarily like that, but it's kind of the way things are.

I know people won't have read that cos it's years old and yada yada but I'm just saying this is why I went a bit nuts. Because it was a brazen post and y'know, the whole download thing really can put the shits up tour hopes. And Devin always seems so damn bummed out when it comes to discussing sales and downloading, it just seemed like such a slap in the face to ask an artist to leak his own material. And obviously, yeah, I'm biased. I accept entirely that these are the risks artists take, but hell, I like Devin. I'd love him to sell millions. He seems to be a cool guy and he makes utterly gorgeous music that has pretty much soundtracked the last few years of my life, which have definitely been the most important thus far. So there's a spot in the ticker there for him and I get a bit pissy when people are blatant assholes about, well, basically stealing the work he busted his ass to make for us.

I didn't have any objection to your post. I consider it excessively rude to ask for something into which someone has poured all his efforts, without compensation, and at immediate notice such that one deserves such a thing. It's ludicrous. I can understanding wanting to hear it--I'm looking forward to it, but for fuck's sake, don't insult someone because you love his art. Judging from the enthusiasm surrounding Ki and all that Devin has set up for this and next year, I don't see him running out of steam any time soon. Of course I'll download Addicted; it'll be no different from any other of his albums in that respect. But I'll buy it, too (again, no difference). Why the fuck not? I've never met Devin in person, and to be honest, I don't think we'd really get along all that well, but I have some serious respect for him as a musician (and as a poet of sorts regarding a couple albums), and will always support him.

BACK!

Sup Dunkel.

[EphelDuath666]

welcome back!

I didn't have any objection to your post. I consider it excessively rude to ask for something into which someone has poured all his efforts, without compensation, and at immediate notice such that one deserves such a thing. It's ludicrous. I can understanding wanting to hear it--I'm looking forward to it, but for fuck's sake, don't insult someone because you love his art. Judging from the enthusiasm surrounding Ki and all that Devin has set up for this and next year, I don't see him running out of steam any time soon. Of course I'll download Addicted; it'll be no different from any other of his albums in that respect. But I'll buy it, too (again, no difference). Why the fuck not? I've never met Devin in person, and to be honest, I don't think we'd really get along all that well, but I have some serious respect for him as a musician (and as a poet of sorts regarding a couple albums), and will always support him.

Pretty much the same for me.

The thing is, Entropy, as much as music is art you have mentioned that some people do prefer to make their living off of it which in turn it becomes their "job". Some of them absolutely love it and never want to go back to how things were before and continue making music and selling it despite the fact that they will be less privileged than others.

Devin is one of the ones who has gotten to a point that his skills and musicianship are recognized enough that music has literally become his job(I'm sure you understand this from a musician's standpoint, but just for the sake of argument and for others who arent etc etc)

I pre-ordered Ki as soon as I knew I could, and I'll do the damn same for Addicted, Decon, 4th album, etc. I admit I dont own all of Dev's works. There are a few I wouldnt buy to be honest (Devlab, Assordid, Punky).

A lot of newer, lesser known bands love when people download their music (usually just an EP) so they can pass it around to people and get their name out. That's all well and good, and I think it's actually a great strategy to be honest. But when it comes to musicians like Dev who aren't platinum artists and need the money from record/merch sales to feed their family, it's a whole different story.

Sorry if this post comes off as rambling it's fucking late and I'm not tired which isnt good, I need to be up relatively early =/