@Mulluz

I see you were posting an explanation about your "Music is art line" while I was making my post - alright then, strike that part of my commentary. I took you very seriously b/c I've heard this lame nonsense spouted by people too many times in the past to keep count. "Art is free, man!" I never understood this.


I used the ninja turtle b/c I did not see a "confused" smiley. How can there not be a confused smiley??? Maybe I'm blind. Hehehe.

HauntingTheHoly:
Thank you for being the first one not to curse, and "bash" me. I totally agree on everything you wrote.
"If you choose to be one of these types as you have explained, it's probably a better idea NOT to mention it on the band's board. It's not exactly something to be proud of."
Hey, I just thought it would be a good idea to be honest in the spirit of discussion. Also, I think that this forum probably isn't solely(is that a word?) for the people who contribute the most to Devins economy. It should be about the people who love is music(and I do, really, really love his music. He's probably my only "hero" musicwise. He does brave, weird music like no one else). That´s probably why I jumped in here and used the word 'hypocrisy'. Cause I love the music...but i will download it. It´s a shame...but that's how I am. As I said, I'm currently unemployed so my budget is tight. I _could_ not download...but - as I said, maybe I wouldnt buy the record...soo, is it better for me to be a fan who doesnt own the music in anyway - or a fan that get's the music for free?
It may sound pretentious...but i really, really think Devins is in it for the music. Poor or rich, He'd still be creatin music. But again, It's just so complicated. We really can't stop or censor the internet(at least I can't think of smart ways of doin that. Those hacker-type-guys are always going to be one step ahead of the "law")

And...given the reactions I've gotten...Do anyone here really think anyone(other than one as stupid as me) would admit that they, in fact, probably will _not_ buy the record when it comes out(after first downloading it). Maybe you´re all superpeople who really, really believe in supporting music and so on...but... It's not that easy to say anything else in here, is it?

[EphelDuath666]

but this is not a pissing contest for people showing how big their balls are. It's not appropriate to say that you won't support the artist on his own message board, especially when he gets here himself when he finds time. And not just he gets here, the whole band does, as you see Tracy spends a lot time here too, they wouldn't have to do all that.

First: I am not the Devil incarnated. Im just a unemployed("suppose you go to work and don't expect to get paid at the end of the month right?")
guy from northern sweden. And still - answer this: If you try to think of the internet as a physical thing. The records are everywhere. It's like you can't look anywhere without seeing a record...and then in the middle of this world of records you see a desk, with a guy trying to ge people to go to him, and _pay_ for stuff that you might as well take(cause they´re _everywhere_). It doesn't make sense. It's just that. Think of it more like a philosophical problem. It just isn't as easy and black/white as all of you all seem to see it. That's all I'm saying really.

Might I say that if you can afford broadband and a pc (which are presumably what you are using to download mp3s en masse) then you could possibly run to buying CDs too? They're not that expensive.

Your personal reasons for unemployment aside (because they're none of business and I respect that) I would suggest that if you can't afford to buy something because you haven't got the money, you should wait until you can afford it. That might include getting a job or in the event of a legitimate reason for not working, simply saving up. You know, like people did once upon a time?

I'm sure most donwloaders wouldn't walk into a shop and steal something, and yet bizzarely, with the anonymity of the internet on your side, you can proudly confess to the progenitor of the very music you intend to steal that you are going to do just that. Steal his music.

That's got some cheek.

Come on, let's all stop kidding ourselves and not play down the fact that downloading is not tantamount but is completely and utterly THEFT. No matter how hard you try to justify it, you are still obtaining what are essentially luxury items (though this may be particularly hard to imagine in the developed West) by illegal means.

Fact.

Whether you feel bad about it is really more down to your morality.

[Tracy]

I just posted this under another topic on the board but it's goood here too:

Turn to the old classic Steve Albini article "The Problem with Music". This is a must-read for anyone entering the music industry or curious about it. A lot of people see it as an excuse to download because they are cheating the "evil record labels" but you're not, the only one who suffers is the band. The label can always get a replacement.

http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

Oops, there's a link in there that doesn't show up

http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

EphelDuath666:
I support him with my heart and soul But it's all about the money, isn't it?

Marshall Bravestar: Im a spoiled brat.
No, internet comes with my rent. Also I am living in probably one of the...greatest "internetcities"(?) in Sweden. You can't find a place to live in that's not connected basically. Very high tec. Bought the computer with a herritage(is that the word? When someone dies and the family gets...stuff, and money) from a aunt that passed away.
My reasons for being unemployed are mostly just hard times(in Sweden in general) employmentwise.
I can't believe you guys are so conservative. You all sound like...my mother? Haha. "The times, they are changing".
It's _not_ that easy, as to just call it THEFT. You have to look at it more like...like if shops didnt have...boundaries. Like if the merchandise was lying around everywhere...on the ground, everyfucking where. If you would like to buy something you found on the ground, most of the times, you wouldnt actually even know who to pay. I think, seeing it like that, is more true to how the internet actually works. And is also why it's a lot more complicated than you describe it (=theft).

[EphelDuath666]

EphelDuath666:
I support him with my heart and soul But it's all about the money, isn't it?

well, no...but he won't ever be able to pay his rent and everything else with boogers. He needs money for that like anybody else.

you know where to pay

I'm gonna go to bed soon. Im guessing there will be about 20 messages here telling me what a jerk I am if i come back here tomorrow(so I probably won´t). Anyways, just wanted to say...since you guys think it's stupid of me to admit downloading here in this forum, to Devin: Hey, even if you hate me for taking your music without paying you...I still love you. Heck, If you wrote a song called "I hate you Mulle, you downloading hypocritical bastard", you guessed it...I'd still love you, and probably feel strangely honoured just by being mentioned:-)

Good night you guys.

"You´re my boy, Blue!"

It's _not_ that easy, as to just call it THEFT. You have to look at it more like...like if shops didnt have...boundaries. Like if the merchandise was lying around everywhere...on the ground, everyfucking where. If you would like to buy something you found on the ground, most of the times, you wouldnt actually even know who to pay. I think, seeing it like that, is more true to how the internet actually works. And is also why it's a lot more complicated than you describe it (=theft).

No it's not.

The internet has laws governing it just like everything else in the democratic world.

You are purporting the ideology of Anarchism. That subscribes to the concept that ownership is theft.

That's not how things work and I'm not saying all this because I'm conservative, I'm saying it because it's true. Under law (in the US, Europe and most developed countries) downloading songs from p2p or newsgroups and things like that is illegal.

Hey, I don't make the rules dude.

I think you are deluding yourself in order to justify what you do.

I'm not saying anything about how much someone likes an artist, but it really annoys me when people try to suggest that there's nothing wrong with downloading copyrighted material of any kind; films, music, videogames, hell even books!

Off topic: Didn't Google get into trouble over something to do with making books available online?

See? That's just how it is. Viewing it any other way won't change a thing.

(the police and representatives in the "county"("landskap" in swedish) where I live in Sweden have recently(a few months ago) said that they won´t put any effort in hunting down and prosecuting downloaders. They simply dont have the time. They pretty much compare it to crossing the street when there's a red light. It's like...if they caught someone in "the middle of the act", maybe they would intervene. But they will not put any effort in hunting down, and actively find downloaders. Why am I saying this? Because law is not only what is written in paper. The law is not just the law, as it is written. People have to agree on the law for it to work. And, at least in Sweden in various polls, very few view downloading as I crime(and if they do, they don't view it as a crime greater than that of crossing the street when the light is red. It's not me saying this, or me justifing what i do - It's how people in generel see it. And I'm not the one with the sollutions.))

And with that I leave you for the night...

thats one country this is an international problem... one that doesn't seemed to be helped by ignoring it. somepeople don't view it as a crime cause its in everyones home.