The thing that's made me mention this now is that it's getting silly on here with people declaring themselves either "weak" and apologetic, or somehow holier than thou because they're waiting. Do we really need either post on here ?

Does not stealing someone else's intellectual property make me a better person (in that respect) than someone who does? You betcha. Some moral standards are non-negotiable.

Everyones morals are different. It is quite negotiable. Morals are very subjective and unique to each individual.

It is not against MY morals to download the album before the release when im still going to buy it. I do not see the big deal.

The thing that's made me mention this now is that it's getting silly on here with people declaring themselves either "weak" and apologetic, or somehow holier than thou because they're waiting. Do we really need either post on here ?

Does not stealing someone else's intellectual property make me a better person (in that respect) than someone who does? You betcha. Some moral standards are non-negotiable.

Everyones morals are different. It is quite negotiable. Morals are very subjective and unique to each individual.

It is not against MY morals to download the album before the release when im still going to buy it. I do not see the big deal.

No, don't you give me that "everything is relative" bullshit. Historically, there is no society in which theft is not a crime.

I suggest you read your basic Kant (for real starters, Wikipedia will do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kant%2C_Im ... philosophy ) and come back then.

It's funny, how many people here do you think actually downloaded the album, but are talking self-righteour bullshit like they're so against downloading? Hahaha.

Take Kristopher, for example, he went on this ridiculous rant about leechers and downloaders and whatnot, sort of spazzed out, but go to another thread and he admits to downloading Alien. Hahahaha.

Just calm the fuck down! I downloaded the album and I am happy that I did, I love it and I didn't leak it nor am I sharing it. I will buy the album, as ALWAYS thus no shame or regret. Downloaders who don't intend on buying the CD will download now or later. Nothing will change this. Let it go, enjoy the music and discuss it. Quit trying to act like you're better than everyone else who downloaded it.

It's funny, how many people here do you think actually downloaded the album, but are talking self-righteour bullshit like they're so against downloading? Hahaha.

Take Kristopher, for example, he went on this ridiculous rant about leechers and downloaders and whatnot, sort of spazzed out, but go to another thread and he admits to downloading Alien. Hahahaha.

Just calm the fuck down! I downloaded the album and I am happy that I did, I love it and I didn't leak it nor am I sharing it. I will buy the album, as ALWAYS thus no shame or regret. Downloaders who don't intend on buying the CD will download now or later. Nothing will change this. Let it go, enjoy the music and discuss it. Quit trying to act like you're better than everyone else who downloaded it.

I'm actually enjoying some (and I stress the word some) of the debate going on though. It's nice to have a little fuel for the fire to see where it leads things.

We've already had a mention of Kant and the notion of theft in a societies rule system.

Can't be all bad as a metal forum goes !!

On one end, I feel guilty about downloading for this is the first Dev-related rellease I've ever downloaded before the release. But on the other hand, I'm kinda glad I did coz otherwise it would've been severe torture on myself waiting for the official release!

Rest assured, I'm buying two copies of the special edition when it comes out. One to open and listen to and watch the DVD and the other for collector's purposes.

Just calm the fuck down! I downloaded the album and I am happy that I did, I love it and I didn't leak it nor am I sharing it. I will buy the album, as ALWAYS thus no shame or regret. Downloaders who don't intend on buying the CD will download now or later. Nothing will change this. Let it go, enjoy the music and discuss it. Quit trying to act like you're better than everyone else who downloaded it.

Someone leaked it, you benefited, but you not leaking it forward or sharing it is suddenly a positive thing??? That is an outrageous hypocrisy, Kenneth.

The rule of the game is: first you buy, then you listen. What you get to listen BEFORE you buy is what the artist intends for you to hear and puts it on the site. So right here there's shame on you and regret from HDR: if you have the album now, something is wrong. Calming people down with actions that shall happen in the future is insulting. You also say nothing will change the current state of things. Right, no THING will change it, but every single one of you could change it. But massive is passive and likes it.

We're not saying we are better, we're saying you are worse.

goat... im in agreance with you.. but get hammered coz i think im too abrupt with my posts...

all i wanna say is i think your avatar is a fucking crack up!!!

Just calm the fuck down! I downloaded the album and I am happy that I did, I love it and I didn't leak it nor am I sharing it. I will buy the album, as ALWAYS thus no shame or regret. Downloaders who don't intend on buying the CD will download now or later. Nothing will change this. Let it go, enjoy the music and discuss it. Quit trying to act like you're better than everyone else who downloaded it.

Someone leaked it, you benefited, but you not leaking it forward or sharing it is suddenly a positive thing??? That is an outrageous hypocrisy, Kenneth.

The rule of the game is: first you buy, then you listen. What you get to listen BEFORE you buy is what the artist intends for you to hear and puts it on the site. So right here there's shame on you and regret from HDR: if you have the album now, something is wrong. Calming people down with actions that shall happen in the future is insulting. You also say nothing will change the current state of things. Right, no THING will change it, but every single one of you could change it. But massive is passive and likes it.

We're not saying we are better, we're saying you are worse.

Tell me how me downloading it is negative if regardless of whether I have it now or not the end result would be the same? I would be the CD either way.

goat... im in agreance with you.. but get hammered coz i think im too abrupt with my posts...

all i wanna say is i think your avatar is a fucking crack up!!!

Then quit downloading albums.

The thing that's made me mention this now is that it's getting silly on here with people declaring themselves either "weak" and apologetic, or somehow holier than thou because they're waiting. Do we really need either post on here ?

Does not stealing someone else's intellectual property make me a better person (in that respect) than someone who does? You betcha. Some moral standards are non-negotiable.

Everyones morals are different. It is quite negotiable. Morals are very subjective and unique to each individual.

It is not against MY morals to download the album before the release when im still going to buy it. I do not see the big deal.

No, don't you give me that "everything is relative" bullshit. Historically, there is no society in which theft is not a crime.

I suggest you read your basic Kant (for real starters, Wikipedia will do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kant%2C_Im ... philosophy ) and come back then.

So your telling me that my morals are wrong? And its really not theft imo, even if it involved having the music. Im going to buy it, I feel as though my actions are justified.

and you are right about there being no societies based on theft, but in and of itself, it is impossible for a society like that to flourish. There are people out there who do not think it is morally wrong to steal. And I really dont feel like getting into any heated discussion about this shit. I downloaded a cd before the release, and I feel as though I will justify my actions. If you think im a thieving asshole, I could really care less. Take your self-rightousness and shove it up your ass. I see a lot of hypocrites on this board now that Devin didnt want us to download it.

goat... im in agreance with you.. but get hammered coz i think im too abrupt with my posts...

all i wanna say is i think your avatar is a fucking crack up!!!

Then quit downloading albums.

eyesore... youre a kook

goat... im in agreance with you.. but get hammered coz i think im too abrupt with my posts...

all i wanna say is i think your avatar is a fucking crack up!!!

Then quit downloading albums.

eyesore... youre a kook

No, I'm not. Just don't be a hypocrite. And if you don't download albums now, fine, but don't insult those who do now when you've been guilty in the past. Very simple.

Take your self-rightousness and shove it up your ass. I see a lot of hypocrites on this board now that Devin didnt want us to download it.

Why the harsh wording? Did I hit a weak spot there? To me, your reaction is evidence that somewhere deep down, you know your actions are wrong, but you're afraid to admit it in public and you're too busy justifying it to yourself. I suggest re-thinking your argumentation (or coming up with a real one in the first place).

Me not downloading has nothing to do with Devin (or any other artist for that matter) not wanting me to - in fact, that is the very point of the whole thing: downloading is not the right thing to do, that's why I don't do it. I don't need anyone telling me so.

Besides, I still don't get what could possibly be "hypocritical" about not being a thief. "Hypocritical" is what I'd call your behaviour instead: justifying illegal activity and asserting one's innocence at the same time.

BAH! You downloaded it. Quit lying.

Quit bickering.