Crossing the street on a red light??? Thats blasphemy!!!!

Music downloading has its positives and its negatives. Without the internet, i would not have found many of my favorite artists that I listen to on a daily basis. Downloading has given underground bands more publicity. A lot of people support their favorite artists, and I have found some of my favorites via downloading. When I download a cd, and truly like what I hear, I try and go out and buy the cd as soon as I can. I figure, without the internet, they wouldnt have even acknowledged me as a fan, so they can wait until i eventually pick it up.

Saying that, I did not discover Devin's music through downloading. I bought AE right after it came out, as I loved SYL and wanted to see what his side project was about. When i first threw it in (Eko or whatever) i was like hmm, i dont like this that much. Then i realized i had the wrong cd in. I first heard dpeth charge and was like, idk. The music grew on me the more I listened, and it then became an obsession. I will buy whatever Devin releases, I love it all. I will buy Synchestra the day it comes out, and I will try not to download it. But mark my words, if i do download it, i will still be at the store the day it comes out. THE DAY!

It's _not_ that easy, as to just call it THEFT. You have to look at it more like...like if shops didnt have...boundaries. Like if the merchandise was lying around everywhere...on the ground, everyfucking where. If you would like to buy something you found on the ground, most of the times, you wouldnt actually even know who to pay. I think, seeing it like that, is more true to how the internet actually works. And is also why it's a lot more complicated than you describe it (=theft).

The problem with this argument is that it's not as if the music is just lying there. It's more like that some people gave you the key to the music store so you can sneak in at night and grab some music. P2P networks are not out in the open unless you go to the effort of dl'ing the software. That means the work is not just lying on the ground. It's actually behind walls but you are given a key to get through those walls. And the real problem is that the people that are giving you the key don't own the music store at all. They just work there, so to speak. Because, when you buy a CD you aren't buying the music, you're buying the right to listen to it.

So, please, Mullez, stop with this sophomoric "Oh, the music is just lying there so we should pick it up." It's not. If it were, it would be posted on public sites. The people hosting the music for you to download have no right to give you a copy of it. It's still theft. Grow up and live in the real world.

Crossing the street on a red light??? Thats blasphemy!!!!

Music downloading has its positives and its negatives. Without the internet, i would not have found many of my favorite artists that I listen to on a daily basis. Downloading has given underground bands more publicity. A lot of people support their favorite artists, and I have found some of my favorites via downloading. When I download a cd, and truly like what I hear, I try and go out and buy the cd as soon as I can. I figure, without the internet, they wouldnt have even acknowledged me as a fan, so they can wait until i eventually pick it up.

Exactly, and seeing as the majority of the people who said they would download in this thread will be buying it, no-one else has really criticised anyone for planning to download and then buy. I personally have no problem with people doing that, and when I was about 15/16, I discovered a lot of my now favourite bands that way. Have I ever downloaded an mp3 that I didn't delete (if I didn't like), buy the cd of (if I did) or owned because it was out of print/demo material. But as always, people take the p**s and ruin it for the people who use it for genuine reasons.

I do admit that it does piss me off when you get the likes of Britney Spears moaning about downloading when there are artists (who, IMO, CREATE by definition) who are struggling to survive after pouring every ounce of their heart and soul and creativity into what they do. But it is the latter we are talking about in Dev's case (and the majority of other bands) I cannot understand how someone cannot see that an artist can only put that much energy into their particular artform with the time and resources afforded by the fact that they sell it, and those of us who like it buy it.

Yes but the problem with Mulluz was that he was basically insinuating that he had very little intention of buying it, just downloading it. Which is an incrediblly audacious thing to do on the website of the guy you're going to download from.

If Dev intended for us to hear it before release he'd post it on here for free download, and he hasn't. So I for one won't be downloading it.

Not trying to be holier than thou, I just respect the law (even if some are stupid) and the musicians whom I buy things from.

gurp13:
You make a good point. On the other hand, your example just forces me to change my argument/theory. What If you look at it like there are _keys_ lying around everywhere... You don't really have to try that hard to get them. There are no fishy guys walking around handing out keys. You just have to open your eyes to see them. But, it´s true that you don't just passively get the record without any effort.
You make a point, but It's still complicated. The internet is something relativley new, and is very hard to compare to real life/the real world.

The internet is something relativley new, and is very hard to compare to real life/the real world.

I don't think it's that hard at all.

To put it into the sort of analogy you seem comfortable with, think of it as an Information Shopping Mall.

It's a space where information is provided in almost infinite quantities by an almost infinite quantity of sources.

Many of these sources will provide their information for free. These could be said to be help kiosks with leaflets of information which cost nothing.

Then there are retail outlets which sell information. It may be anything from music to car spares. In a musical context, there are listening posts, where you can preview the music of certain artists for free (amazon does this as does the high street store HMV).

Then there are job centres, where you can search for new employment opportunities.

Finally you'd have the shady characters hanging around just on the edge of the mall, who happily allow you have for free what you could (should) have bought in the retail outlets.

Do you see what I mean? It is a rather limited view to say that the internet is merely a playground for theives and opportunists.

You say there are no fishy guys handing out keys. Okay then. What is Bit Torrent? How about Kazaa? How would you obtain the things you do from other people without these pieces of software? How are you going to further contort your poorly thought-out analogy to explain that? In your context, to me, they are keys.

What I feel you are also implying is that because noone is around to intervene, you have no qualms about "picking up" anything you find in the vastness of the internet. Presumably you also download films and anything else you can get your hands on. To extend my analogy as far as I can be bothered to, this is the equivelant to making sure noones looking in a shop, and slipping the merchandise into your coat.

You said in an earlier post you wouldn't know who to pay??? How about going to the artists website or go to amazon (for example) and search for it on there. AND PAY THEM!! Or do you only download when you don't know who made the music so you can't. That seems unlikely given the fact that you're on here telling us you like Devin and will be downloading his stuff.

Stop making excuses and painting pseudo-philosophical pictures of this "free system" because it incorporates far more legitimate elements to it than you think. You're abusing a resource which was never meant to be used for illegal means and just because your government turns it's back doesn't mean you should do it.

Every time you download and choose not to buy you make an artist a little poorer. If you were never going to buy so it doesn't matter, then why download it? I mean what's the purpose of downloading anything if you're not going to use it? Presumably you'll listen to it a bit, which by rights means that you've downloaded it to listen to it. So you should have bought it. How about the thrill of hunting stuff down in a music shop and unwrapping the celophane and eagerly putting it into your CD player?

You can't just only buy the triple A things and then justify downloading hundreds of other things which still get a fair listening to, just because they're good but not great. This grey area of stuff you like and use, but wouldn't buy is the biggest loss in revenue to all media sectors.

Most mass downloaders I know never get round to watching or listening to stuff they've downloaded, and they often seem very unemotional and easily bored by the things they've obtained by these means. It's as though it's force of habit - downloading every morning and checking it by night. With little care for what they have.

Why? I think because they've not had to work for it, save for it, they have no packaging so there's no feeling that you really own anything which feeds this belief that noone on the internet really owns anything so it's okay to carry on.


And what of the albums you download and intend to buy but never quite get around to? You then have a top album you love but haven't bought because of excuse (a) excuse (b) metaphor (c) and so on.

Utter nonsense.

Analogy, that's the word. Thanks. Haha.
Yeah, I find analogys useful in discussing these things. I also am aware that even someone as supersmart as me(haha) gets into problem creating a perfect analogy. It certainly has it's holes. But so does your arguments. The truth as always probably lies somewhere in the middle. But I still think one of the problems is that no, the "shady" people aren´t hanging around in the edge of the mall. It's totally the opposite. It's the legal dudes who are hard to find. But on the other hand, that's changing nowadays. The legal guys are spreading and making themselves more visible and are finding better ways of making their products available., so in the future...who knows.
Also, on a personal note. I know the type you're talking about...the massdownloader. I am certainly not one of those. I rarely download(strange me arguing for it) at all. I just download the albums i really want to hear. Quality, not quantity. I actually cant think of any record right now, other than Synchestra that i really want to hear.
Hm, what more to say...
You may think that i make pseudo-philosophical pictures of this thing, but... I really think you kind of have to. The Internet really, really is something "new". Never in history has anything existed that can compare to it. I'm not trying to pretend I have answers and sollutions. But, still...I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say that I won't take advantage of the uncertainties. Even if we could agree that it is illegal... I can't think of a way that it can be stopped...since almost everyone suddenly is a criminal. That's why I wrote about the police here...and how they´ve openly said that..."we don't have the time to deal with this. They´re are more important crimes to deal with". You know, you can't arrest or press charges against the entire population of a Country.

By the way, guys, it's leaked. It was only a matter of time, I guess. But I'm a dirty pirate, so I'll be listening to it in a few minutes.

Sorry Dev!

By the way, guys, it's leaked. It was only a matter of time, I guess. But I'm a dirty pirate, so I'll be listening to it in a few minutes.

Sorry Dev!

What a stupid post! So now you're sad because you are already listening to Synchestra? Or is your sadeness just pity for poor Dev here

***edited by mod****

NOBODY here wants to be called a dickhead, just behave.

By the way, guys, it's leaked. It was only a matter of time, I guess. But I'm a dirty pirate, so I'll be listening to it in a few minutes.

Sorry Dev!

...and will you be buying it?

By the way, guys, it's leaked. It was only a matter of time, I guess. But I'm a dirty pirate, so I'll be listening to it in a few minutes.

Sorry Dev!

...and will you be buying it?

Of course. This album is so amazing, there's no way I could not buy it!

And I won't say any more than this - if this was a 2005 release, it'd be my Album of the Year, no contest. And some really, really good stuff came out this year.

Hey man, I've tried to PM you, and I'm sorry to ask you this publicly, but could you send it to me? Of course I'll buy it, I own all the strapping and DTB albums so far

Yeah, spread the wealth man. And yes, I'll buy it. I actually have multiple copies of most Devin stuff, signed and un-signed. Just tell Devin I'm one of his 5 crazy, obsessed fans that always shows up at the Arizona shows.

I don't see it anywhere.....are you sure it leaked?

Be sure to be very discreet about the Synchestra leak.

People posting links online will be banned.

Use the PM option to contact members that can eventually give you info about the leak.

Show respect for people that will wait for the official release date and don't spoil the surprise.

Don't start dozen of threads about the leak.

Simple as this.