[JuZ]

I am atheist, and I like it.

Here's a brilliant interview video featuring the atheist philosopher Daniel Dennett, which should be mandatory for EVERYBODY. WATCH IT:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2168820605

Absolutely fascinating conversation. Thanks for the link.

[JuZ]

Oh man, I don't know where to start... so maybe I won't! I'll just say thanks everyone for not playing the "never discuss politics or religion" card. That always irritates me as they're both fascinating subjects!

[JuZ]

Sorry, too many posts. See John Safran below, summing up the whole don't-knock-on-my-door thing.

[JuZ]

[youtube]lRmC0DaE6rE[/youtube]

Fuck yeah! John Safran is awesome. ive met him on a few occasions too

I should've posted this earlier:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QERyh9YYEis

Religion is a function of the human psyche. No more, no less.

Even if there is a supreme being who created the universe, it is pure arrogance for us to believe that such a being would have any concern whatsoever as to the fate of our species, let alone our individual lives. If the Earth were to be obliterated by a meteor, nothing would really change in the universe. It was here long before us, and will continue to be long after we are gone.

This just in: children no longer need to be baptized to enter heaven! The pope said it was so! About time they changed the admission rules...

http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/05/05/ ... news01.txt

That limbo business was stupid. Far too much cherrypicking going on. I mean church of england?? how can a king override a supposed god? Now catholics dont have to regard the rules of limbo?

Im Catholic, i just dont go completely by the book.

I think it's funny that there are people who don't practice religion and haven't been to chruch in years, yet still consider themselves Catholic just because their parents were Catholic.

Yes, it's one of the many issues discussed in the interview with Daniel Dennett, I highly recommend it!

I fear lots of things... people, life, death... all of it.

It's scary when you realise when you're really young "HOLY CRAP I'M GUNNA DIE, The World is gunna die, The sun is gunna die, it all dies!".

I realised that around... umm... 10 years ago or more. It came simply enough sorta. I was reading a big book on science and it showed the sun expanding to destroy the Earth at the end of it's lifetime (as a red giant). I know... reading a big science book at that age o.o Hell, I read out libraries supplies of military books, science, engineering and all sorts of craziness...

I mean... far out... 100 years is too short... 1 billion years is too short... it's all too short

I'm 20 years old and got shit all to show for it. Maybe I'm just in one of my emo/depressed moods (Yay for aspergers and depression o.o or not...) hence my rambling state.

I have everything yet I feel as good as dead. Stereotypical emo in a sense but dangnamit... I don't wanna be emo! I hate all that sorta crap...

I don't blame the world, I don't hate my parents (:P OK, not all emos are like that... lol... I'm far from that 'viewpoint' however that's for sure.) or the world... I just want answers or something maybe and I just make myself crap by continuously thinking about it all.

So I guess I'm not emo, more philosophical but yes I am emotional in that I show extremes or show it more than most.

I suppose I just want answers and I can't find them anywhere.

My current situation reminds me of what Devy went through with Infinity/City/OM... Who wants to place bets on the fact that he too probably had similar thought processes but then found his answer and did Infinity? Or something like that anyway...

No I ain't comparing myself to Devy... just saying that I bet other people have gone through this crap and came out OK (however many probably haven't - they're destructive thought patterns) but I just dunno how I can

Am I religious/spiritual? I guess so... I suppose I do use it to make me feel better about things.

Its all about richard dawkins setting the record straight.

No, I don't like Richard Dawkins at all. He once said that if you have a faith you're insane. And I've never once heard him come up with a convincing argument to say God doesn't exist. I think it's good for children to be brought up with a faith, but it's their own decision whether or not they carry it on when they come to understand the world. This can be a very hard place to live in and sometimes I understand that people need something deeper. Dawkins is blatently intolerant of religion while never being able to adequately explain why.

I'm going to assume from that response you've never actually read any of his or his like minded colleagues publications then? I must say i'm astonished you think moulding tiny minds to certain beliefs is a more positive action than allowing fully grown adults to make a choice. If children can be raised to believe a fat man in a red suit comes down the chimney they'll believe just about anything.

Well to be fair, Santa is a ficticious character as a fact, whereas nobody can prove or disprove God. Besides, my parents brought me up to believe what they believed, with leeway for questions. It wasn't like I was oppressed into being a Catholic. Then when I was old enough I could determine whether or not I wanted to believe in a God, or I found it plausible. It's not about brainwashing children. It's about giving them something that they can turn to if life ever gets too hard to deal with alone.

And no, I've never read any of his publications. But he was all over Irish tv a few weeks ago and he was fascist enough for me not to ever want to purchase his garbage. Like I care what somebody who has no tolerance of anyone elses beliefs thinks. Religion is completely a matter of opinion, it's a case by case thing. I'll believe whatever I see fit to, without him telling me what I can and can't.

You say you have never been offered a convincing argument that god doesnt exist i would very much like to know what convincing proof god does exist you have for me? By that logic you must have some kind of concrete evidence to believe?

I didn't say I believe God exists, nor can I see any evidence that he does. I said that in the opening post of the thread. I'm just saying, if he can completely disprove God for me, I'll become an Athiest. But I think it's one of those things that people can never really determine, and I'm Agnostic for that very reason. And if you want arguments for it, all the miracles that Jesus chap performed, the holy images people see all over the place that have been scientifically proven to be inexplainable, etc.

[youtube]lRmC0DaE6rE[/youtube]

It's a good point he's making. But I suppose if you're so adamant about your religion that you're willing to have a door slammed in your face several times a day for the sake of a few new believers, good for you. It must give your life some sort of purpose. I just feel living life in itself is purpose enough.

It's not like I can't get out of my house because I'm scared or anything like that. I used to think that I don't fear death but there's been two or three "Oh shit! This is it..."-moments that have prooved me wrong.

That's very true, and I've never been there so I don't know how I'd react. But I suppose I look at it from the only way I can, that I've enjoyed life so far and I've found a lot of things out and had lovely experiences that I wouldn't have had if I hadn't lived. And when I die, there'll be no more of that. But I'm not dead yet and I'll deal with death when it happens!

1. I´m a son of a preacherman, roman-katholic.
2. I went to church every sunday until i was 17 or so.
3. At the age of 15 or so i discovered some kind of guru, Sai Baba. My father and the rest of the family also did and we also liked the whole esoteric, new age, cospiration-theory-thing.
4. Between maybe 15 an 19 i was really religious and believed in reincarnation (thanks to Sai Baba), i had a very clear imagination of the world and the meaning of life. Almost no questions remained unanswered.
5. At the age of 19 i worked at some kind of esoteric hotel/school, where i met VERY strange people.
6. I realised that every person i knew who believed the same esoteric shit like me had some kind of mental problems. None of them could have been some kind of idol or orientation for me.
7. Some of those strange people told me, that Sai Baba was in fact an evil being, with super-powers, yes, but evil. I didn´t believe that but it showed me that not every "esoteric" person believed the same. Until that day i thought that there where only the "mainstream" and the "esoteric" way of life. It sounds very dumb now, but at that time i began to realise that in fact all of it is just a matter of your private construction of the reality.
8. That led to a few years of depression, where i had to build up a new view of the world and left the path of being a follower of some kind of religion or something.
9. My point of view now is like that: I believe that life is not futile. If it has some kind of meaning, whatever, there has to be a) something like souls b) some kind of global justice c) some kind of authority which serves up justice which would be god.

I believe that for a very good reason: If i wouldn´t belive it, i would commit suicide right now.

But what i don´t believe is every single religious rule how to manage life. I give a shit what some old books say. All of them has been written by humans and where re-written and changed all the time. Why should i believe in heaven, hell, reincarnation or Odin´s table? It makes absolutely no difference. As a moral instance we don´t need religion, just take Kant´s Categorical Imperative and you know why it´s "right" to be a "good" person.

Sorry for bad english.