And that profound purpose you've found in your life, the number 9) there, is what you believe in, it's your reason for tolerating the shit everyone has to tolerate in modern society. And dammit, I search for a reason sometimes too. With all the war, the fact that I discovered last year that walking down the street deemed me a target for people who think I look vulnerable.. and merely that humanity, as a whole, is not a nice lot.

But I suppose I live in my little bubble with my little circles of friends and I'm happy in this life that I lead, even if I'm not happy with the world on a larger scale. When I big enough for people to listen to me you'll see me on telly, shouting at mean people and telling them I don't like them!

How about this; everything you need to know about religion can be found in Slayer lyrics.

for the corinthians scripture, it may help if you read the verses before to understand it. you may misinterpret the fact also, that god only permits men to do the main role of teaching. it's not restricting women out of their speech, because god is a god of love. plus, pauls words to "keep silent" are not only addressed to women, but to three different groups. the other two groups mentioned in the scriptures before were roles set out for men. now you may say it's restrictive to allow only men to fulfill these roles, but try to remember that the law states that the man is the head of the woman. speaking of that, let's address this matter. the husband is the one who is the head of the household, everything needs to be run by him first, but this only happens when the couple are deciding on something together. it's not nice to go and do something behind your husbands back, or behind your wife's back for that matter, so the two must discuss the matter together first before undertaking it.
going back to the first matter, we need to take into account that paul was writing to a congregation, maybe some of the women in that congregation were challenging what the bible said with incomplete knowledge. it's not only women that do that, but maybe in this circumstance it may be so.
for exodus, polygamy was allowed back then, it's only banned today for certain reasons.
Leviticus, read earlier, back 13-15 kind of way and it addresses other people.
sorry, but I really think you need to read some of the other scriptures before having a go at particular ones.

but see...even the things you're defending it with are bad. you're basically saying "well, women have equal rights, it just that men and women are just allowed to do different things!"

and i've read the whole bible, i had 12 years of theology classes. i'm aware that i'm taking these verses out of context. but to deny that the bible is sexist and homophobic is just pure ignorance.

Ahem...

Tom Araya is religious...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Araya

The points he raises are interesting too.

I don't believe in what a band like... say... Dragonlord sings about (Hail Satan basically. However Dragonlord are 'smarter' IMO than say... Dark Funeral ) but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate their music.

Same with Dimmu Borgir... They're even more 'evil' and I sorta feel it when I listen to their music. But I also feel the power behind it. (This is going off Death Cult Armageddon - I'm a sucker for orchestras and that kinda 'over the top'-ness... Stuff like Mayhem is too harsh for me to appreciate)

I don't believe the Bible is right in that it was written ages ago and it was written by us, ie. people. Why not go to the source (God) and get the real info from him???

I suppose this post makes me sound like I'm a Christian or whatever... but read my earlier post. You'll see that tbh I dunno what to believe.

I just want to make sense of things and maybe a discussion like this helps with that.

PS. Hi all LOL... This is a big topic for a 'n00b' to be involved with. It's just a very personal issue I guess and I suppose I seek enlightenment from people willing to discuss it. o.o (Not many people discuss this type of stuff... )

9 See, the day of the LORD is coming
—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—
to make the land desolate
and destroy the sinners within it.

10 The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.

11 I will punish the world for its evil,
the wicked for their sins.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
and will humble the pride of the ruthless.

12 I will make man scarcer than pure gold,
more rare than the gold of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
and the earth will shake from its place
at the wrath of the LORD Almighty,
in the day of his burning anger.

14 Like a hunted gazelle,
like sheep without a shepherd,
each will return to his own people,
each will flee to his native land.

15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.

16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.

17 See, I will stir up against them the Medes,
who do not care for silver
and have no delight in gold.

18 Their bows will strike down the young men;
they will have no mercy on infants
nor will they look with compassion on children.

19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
the glory of the Babylonians' pride,
will be overthrown by God
like Sodom and Gomorrah.

I believe that when I die, I will rot

I fear lots of things... people, life, death... all of it.

It's scary when you realise when you're really young "HOLY CRAP I'M GUNNA DIE, The World is gunna die, The sun is gunna die, it all dies!".

What good your worrying is ever gonna do then? You are going to die and you are not going to hell. You're propably not going anywhere so there's no need to worry anything.

I fear lots of things... people, life, death... all of it.

It's scary when you realise when you're really young "HOLY CRAP I'M GUNNA DIE, The World is gunna die, The sun is gunna die, it all dies!".

What good your worrying is ever gonna do then? You are going to die and you are not going to hell. You're propably not going anywhere so there's no need to worry anything.

Well, I don't know about you, but I pretty much like my life. I'd hate to not be able to play guitar anymore, go out with friends, play gigs, throw my time away behind internet and forums... This all ends when you die. I'm pretty afraid of that. Going to sleep and not waking up... buh...

Well, yeah, there is no point in worrying, Kivenkantaja... but I do Go figure

I like answers to questions. Many people say the journey to find answers is more important but tbh I just want to know the answer.

There still is a lot in me of that kid who thinks anything is possible and his living in his dreams where all is happy and good

Unfortunately you can't stay in dreams and real life may never end up meeting my crazy expectations or whatever... blah.

As I said, I got aspergers, which means I got a pretty persistent, worrying mind. It also has it's benefits in some ways (I have a strong interest in programming and computers for example) so it's not *all* bad and to me it's not an excuse or an easy way out or whatever...

But mainly what it means is that I seek answers to everything and don't stop. I suppose I just want the easy way out... I want to feel... I dunno. It's not so much 'immortality' as much as being able to face the idea that it all ends (Or not, if we all reincarnate ). It's hard not to think about it

I just don't understand 'normal' people and how people can deal with issues such as this other than simply blocking them out. I try that but I keep on coming back to it over and over again... I just can't do it

But atleast there's Devy and SYL to yell and sing along to I guess while I'm here, which is why I'm here on this forum, same with most of you all as well!

Ahem...

Tom Araya is religious...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Araya

The points he raises are interesting too.

I don't believe in what a band like... say... Dragonlord sings about (Hail Satan basically. However Dragonlord are 'smarter' IMO than say... Dark Funeral ) but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate their music.

Same with Dimmu Borgir... They're even more 'evil' and I sorta feel it when I listen to their music. But I also feel the power behind it. (This is going off Death Cult Armageddon - I'm a sucker for orchestras and that kinda 'over the top'-ness... Stuff like Mayhem is too harsh for me to appreciate)

I don't believe the Bible is right in that it was written ages ago and it was written by us, ie. people. Why not go to the source (God) and get the real info from him???

I suppose this post makes me sound like I'm a Christian or whatever... but read my earlier post. You'll see that tbh I dunno what to believe.

I just want to make sense of things and maybe a discussion like this helps with that.

PS. Hi all LOL... This is a big topic for a 'n00b' to be involved with. It's just a very personal issue I guess and I suppose I seek enlightenment from people willing to discuss it. o.o (Not many people discuss this type of stuff... )

Ahem...Tom Araya doesn't write most of their lyrics.

Ah yeah... Well, one of the dudes who does do lyrics (Kerry King) doesn't believe in anything - he simply writes about Satan cause it's more fun than singing about God

The Dev's thoughts on this issue:

http://www.revelationz.net/index.asp?ID=1760

Are you religious in any way?

I'm spiritual. I believe in infinity, the yin and the yang, the power of the spirit, you know, the connection to the infinite, that's being an intricate part of to the human condition. But I can't necessarily say Jesus or Allah or Buddha or, you know, God or Satan even...

But there's something out there?

Yeah, oh yeah. Whatever it is, whatever is out there is giving me a lot of music, whether or not it's happy nice beautiful music or hideous black blasphmeous music, it all kind of comes from the same place, so there's something that tells me that it's connected in a way. But it's like, somebody asked me the other day if I believed in reincarnation and well... Not yet!

but see...even the things you're defending it with are bad. you're basically saying "well, women have equal rights, it just that men and women are just allowed to do different things!"

and i've read the whole bible, i had 12 years of theology classes. i'm aware that i'm taking these verses out of context. but to deny that the bible is sexist and homophobic is just pure ignorance.

maybe if we step back a second and look at how society has grown. we're accepting things today that would've been hell illegal back in the olden days. why? because society has grown, not payiogn any attention to the bible. god had never intended for men to go off with each other, and just because you turn around and say "I want to do this new thing, but the multi-thousand year old law is against it, it's in the wrong!" doesn't mean that it is. let's say, you want to go and steal from someone. of course, the law says that you shouldn't steal, so is it fair to turn around to that law and say "this law sucks because I can't steal, screw the law!"? hardly.
sexist? not really. as again, we've had things intergrated into our society that needn't have been there before. christendom has been a large focal point n most of this acceptance anyway. not that I'm saying women don't have the right to do certain things, but the bible doesn't like the idea of communism and therefore wants to keep order in the chain of responsibilities. today, the world has far too many different views, most of which lead to horrible incidents and arguments, things of which even started this thread. of course, the bible predicts these things, but I'm not going to push my beliefs on anyone here because that's not why I'm on this forum anyway and I can always leave that choice to the witnesses in your area. but I do believe that whenever you convict the bible of going against something that you see as fair, remember that we aren't perfect and our perceptions of what's good and what's not is different to that of the bible. so what, women are restricted to one thing in our religeon, so were Adam and Eve, and they were fine with it until Satan came along. and if you notice the endless references to Satan "misleading the whole inhabited earth" or the fact that the "whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one", you might partially get the idea as to why you see things the way you do, and why these things have been intergrated into society. you may have read the whole bible, but you lack understanding of it my friend.
no offense intended, but when you see something unusual in the bible that doesn't make sense or seem fair, there is always a fair and just reason behind it which will most likely be found in another scripture.

today, the world has far too many different views

Far too many "views"? Well, there are 6,6 billion people living on this planet right now. They all have their individual life and their individual experiences - that makes 6,6 billion different views. How do you want to take away everybody's views, everybody's uniqueness?

Equal rights = COMMUNISM

heh

maybe if we step back a second and look at how society has grown. we're accepting things today that would've been hell illegal back in the olden days. why? because society has grown, not payiogn any attention to the bible. god had never intended for men to go off with each other, and just because you turn around and say "I want to do this new thing, but the multi-thousand year old law is against it, it's in the wrong!" doesn't mean that it is. let's say, you want to go and steal from someone. of course, the law says that you shouldn't steal, so is it fair to turn around to that law and say "this law sucks because I can't steal, screw the law!"? hardly.
sexist? not really. as again, we've had things intergrated into our society that needn't have been there before. christendom has been a large focal point n most of this acceptance anyway. not that I'm saying women don't have the right to do certain things, but the bible doesn't like the idea of communism and therefore wants to keep order in the chain of responsibilities. today, the world has far too many different views, most of which lead to horrible incidents and arguments, things of which even started this thread. of course, the bible predicts these things, but I'm not going to push my beliefs on anyone here because that's not why I'm on this forum anyway and I can always leave that choice to the witnesses in your area. but I do believe that whenever you convict the bible of going against something that you see as fair, remember that we aren't perfect and our perceptions of what's good and what's not is different to that of the bible. so what, women are restricted to one thing in our religeon, so were Adam and Eve, and they were fine with it until Satan came along. and if you notice the endless references to Satan "misleading the whole inhabited earth" or the fact that the "whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one", you might partially get the idea as to why you see things the way you do, and why these things have been intergrated into society. you may have read the whole bible, but you lack understanding of it my friend.
no offense intended, but when you see something unusual in the bible that doesn't make sense or seem fair, there is always a fair and just reason behind it which will most likely be found in another scripture.

i'm trying to think of a response, but i honestly can't follow what you're trying to say.

I understand that back then things were different. a couple hundred years ago we had slavery, and that was accepted, does that make it any less racist or wrong? Were slave-owners not racist just because thats how things were?

I'm not even sure if what I'm saying is relevant, cause I can't really figure out your argument. And I really really didn't understand that whole stealing analogy.