Yup', same here. What I get out of this is that there can be no "in between", no "neutral" PoV, you either follow the bible, "understand" it, and think it's right, but if you don't follow it, thinking you're neutral, critic, you're in fact wrong cuz' you're misleaded by Satan (or you're a child of civilisation/humanity, misleaded by Satan for centuries anyway)...
(edit : when I say this, it's not in a "heretic ! burn 'em !" way, just, hu... conceptually, whatever, that's hard to explain, read the rest^^)

But carefuly, I'd say this works the other way around. I'm agnostic, or atheist, or something like that, and simply can't understand how someone can have faith in such concepts as religions (I'd say there are no evidence, a believer would find plenty of them).

Just like there can't be more than 1 origin in a mathematic coordinate system, and we're that origin for ourselves in our own "belief system", we simply can't grasp the fact some have another origin for themselves, cuz' we're constantly superimposing their "belief system" on top of ourselves, and when we see their origin different than ours, it's just = wrong.

And that maybe even if you try to be open minded. You may study such or such belief, talk with believers and go along well, in the end there will still be little something that tells you "nope, that's not the right picture".
(edit 2: those who change religion, start believing, or stop, "opperate a change" of their belief system origin, but for them, it's still the origin xD if that makes sens^^)

My 2 cents anyway^^ (maybe I'll post my others cents later, ranting about humanity and all, later :þ)

Ah yeah... Well, one of the dudes who does do lyrics (Kerry King) doesn't believe in anything - he simply writes about Satan cause it's more fun than singing about God

The Dev's thoughts on this issue:

http://www.revelationz.net/index.asp?ID=1760

Are you religious in any way?

I'm spiritual. I believe in infinity, the yin and the yang, the power of the spirit, you know, the connection to the infinite, that's being an intricate part of to the human condition. But I can't necessarily say Jesus or Allah or Buddha or, you know, God or Satan even...

But there's something out there?

Yeah, oh yeah. Whatever it is, whatever is out there is giving me a lot of music, whether or not it's happy nice beautiful music or hideous black blasphmeous music, it all kind of comes from the same place, so there's something that tells me that it's connected in a way. But it's like, somebody asked me the other day if I believed in reincarnation and well... Not yet!

Very cool! Thanks for posting. I feel the exact same way has he does, but lean a little more towards Buddhism.

I say with religion, believe what you want to believe. As long as your not using your faith as a catalyst towards hate, discrimination, murder ETC. I think the biggest injustice with religion is that people use it as an excuse for violence and hatred.

today, the world has far too many different views

Far too many "views"? Well, there are 6,6 billion people living on this planet right now. They all have their individual life and their individual experiences - that makes 6,6 billion different views. How do you want to take away everybody's views, everybody's uniqueness?

views as in religeon =P

Is there a religion that doesn't cancel other religions out?

Yeah there is. Buddhism, and this is also because they are the only religion with respect towards other religions. They never say their answer is the only one and they would never go to war or even be upset if someone believed something else.

hinduism is also rather tolerant. a great yogi, paramahansa yogananda, writes in his autobiography: "if you want to discover the deeper meaning of god, don't become a hindu, but stick with your religion and your holy book" - seems to be the common PoV in hinduism.

by the way, if you're interested in religion, read that book, it's awesome!

edit: this makes quite some sense with buddhism and hinduism being the "pacifists", as they have the same origin. the aggressive religions are all the monotheist, "one male god"- religions from the middle east. most others are more tolerant.

[djskrimp]

Too bad people in the world can't do as everyone here has. There have been many differing viewpoints, and the people who have expressed them have been very determined that their way is one that fits them best. Religion, or lack thereof, is very personal, so it would be hard not to have emotion thrown in. Yet, when discussed here, it stays that: discussion. We can all get along here, even knowing the other person's religion, with no problems whatsoever.

I was very hesitant to even post in this thread. (I know I was one of the first...shush.) Yet, once again, you guys have proven why I like to come here so much. Thank you.

[JuZ]

maybe if we step back a second and look at how society has grown. we're accepting things today that would've been hell illegal back in the olden days. why? because society has grown, not payiogn any attention to the bible. god had never intended for men to go off with each other, and just because you turn around and say "I want to do this new thing, but the multi-thousand year old law is against it, it's in the wrong!" doesn't mean that it is.

Hang on... men going off with each other? By that I assume you're referring to homosexuality? If so, men aren't doing a "new thing" at all. Blokes were "going off with each other" long before the bible existed. They lied, stole, killed each other off and certainly coveted their neighbour's donkey for thousands of years. In that sense the bible is the "new thing" that imposed itself on practices that existed long before your book of rules were carved in rocks next to a burning bush. Might want to get some ointment for that burning bush, by the way, before it turns septic.

superhydroyeast is too... I dunno... too bible driven? Or interpreting it too literally???

To say homosexuality never existed is silly... what about the Greeks??? Or the Romans (I think). They had lots of 'flings' like that.

One of my family members is very 'zealous' (In a nice way ) too BUT at the same time he's hilariously funny and very tolerant... while still being able to quote the bible and deliver amazing arguments o.O

Can't remember what 'type' of Christian he is but yeah... he's really into it all and knows alot about religion and that kind of stuff.

Sorry if I offended you superhydroyeast, I'm just going off the impression I'm getting.

To me, God gave us free will, the freedom todo whatever we want as a result of the apple. Now, as I said earlier I'm still unsure about God but seriously... why the hell would he be so anal to people? I mean... does God want people to have fun and do stuff with their lives or waste away? You can show your love to God with more than prayer and that kind of thing.

I've never been to a church and I'm not sure I see the point in them anyway. The "Babylon Mystery Orchestra" (Christian metal band) put out an album talking about how the churches could really be Satan's idea - after all, God knows all, Satan doesn't Therefore Satan needs an easy way to find 'victims'. He doesn't care about people at black metal concerts or church burners, they're already 'his'. Satan wants to corrupt those who think they aren't corrupted. God probably doesn't care when where or how you pray... does it really matter *that* much???

Anyways... as you can tell from my messages I rant and rave a lot, it's very annoying >.< I think I did realise death was inescapable and then simply forgot about it and 'moved on'. I seem to have these phases where I start thinking about it again then I relearn to 'get over it' and move on with life...

[JuZ]

Sorry if that came out harsher than it was intended. My point is that humanity existed successfully enough for tens of thousands of years before the Bible was conceived (by Man, God or both), so it's misleading to present human history as a timeline than begins in the "olden times" of Moses and Mohammed and ends with rimjobs and cocaine binges at the Spearmint Rhino.

Also, the whole "you don't fully comprehend God's teachings yet" argument smells like a smokescreen. Daniel Dennett is much more articulate than I am on the subject, but I'll have a crack at this:

One major problem I had growing up in a Catholic school was Christianity's unwillingness or inability to have a reasoned discussion without eventually reverting to the old patterns:

1. "You do not yet properly understand God's word." Read more. Think more carefully and discuss the Good Book with others who seek to understand God's will and, in time, you will see the way.

When that doesn't work, it's time to try this one:

2. "Faith is crucial to understanding God."
All God asks is that you believe in him and repent for your sins and you will live in eternity with him in Heaven. Pretty sweet incentive to turn the old doubting Thomas lobe off.

And when THAT falls over because those pesky non-believers insist on some kind of reasoned discussion, use this one:

3. The Lord works in mysterious ways.
You are but a tiny fragment of an infinite universe. God's will is beyond our understanding.

You can only have a reasoned discussion with unbending faith up to a certain point because faith is always right. Faith speaks but does not listen.

I'm confused... are you talking about my post JuZ?

Well, the way I see it the current state of Christianity is wrong...
* I don't believe the crusades were right
* I don't support the Catholic Church (or any other Church organisation... except the Salvation Army cause they really do do good stuff)
* I don't support the enforcement and conversion of native people to Christianity (Crap, forgot the name of that process... they are Crusades though in a sense)
* I don't support subjugation of people with religion as a justification
* I definitely do NOT support the Pope (No offence to Catholics...)

<rant>
God's representative??? Bah... what a load of rubbish IMHO. No person is better than any other person, no person is more 'Holy' than any other person. To God we're all the same and what matters is whether we trust him or not and believe in him. But as far as how we appear to other people, I have no respect for the Pope because to me he just looks like a normal person. There's nothing holy or special about him and he's done nothing to deserve my respect.
</rant>

Why did the crusades occur? The Church.
Why did the dark ages occur? The Church.
Who has a lot of wealth, wastes it on big buildings and their own lifestyles yet does nothing for their own people? The Church.

And that's only the beginning. The only exception I've seen is the Salvation Army, who help everyone and anyone and do a fantastic job around our country. Also, maybe I *did* miss others too - I'm not that knowledgeable I'll admit about Churches outside the 'main' ones...

Basically, I support God, not the Church God was around before the Church and will CONTINUE on after the Church and beyond... So why exactly should I support something finite and made by people for people? Makes no sense to me.

I never did have problems discussing faith with some people from my school, one of the religious teachers was actually really cool and knew what he was talking about very well and didn't revert to 'bullshit' when you asked tricky questions. This was at a Christian school btw...

And even then I'm still up in the air o.o I'm in the 'middle' but tending towards faith I guess...

[JuZ]

I'm confused... are you talking about my post JuZ?

Nope. Superhydroyeast, if any, but I was talking more about Christianity in general. Sorry 'bout the confusion.

[djskrimp]

I wish that if there was a god, that at least ONE person would come back and say, " Hey, guys, this is the dude! You don't have to fight anymore!" Selfish dead peoplel!


For those who don't get my quirky sense of humour: I was akiddin'.

LMAO, you're so right... all those selfish dead people!

*shakes head and fist in a grumpy non-metal way*

LMAO, you're so right... all those selfish dead people!

*shakes head and fist in a grumpy non-metal way*

You just insulted every single human that has lived and died on this planet.
But that's ok, we are pretty tolerant here