[Keeker]

So many problems are caused simply because we can't just simply respect each other.

So, what do you do about, for example, muslim immigrants living in our western societies who still practice genital mutilation on young girls? Can we respect something like that? Can we westerners accept these forms of multiculturalism in our enlightened societies? What about genital mutilation in other countries? Does relativism of values work?

These are some of the current burning issues of our societies.

I must confess, that is pretty much where my tolerance ends.

[djskrimp]

So many problems are caused simply because we can't just simply respect each other.

So, what do you do about, for example, muslim immigrants living in our western societies who still practice genital mutilation on young girls? Can we respect something like that? Can we westerners accept these forms of multiculturalism in our enlightened societies? What about genital mutilation in other countries? Does relativism of values work?

These are some of the current burning issues of our societies.

Why would you try to take a very pointed thing like that and try to turn it around on someone who is simply trying to, generally, say that we don't respect each other enough? (Edit: Please don't misread me, Das S, I ask only because I want to know what you meant.) Of COURSE there are always exceptions to generalities...being human means that there are too many nuances in things for a blanket statement to ever actually work. Bu the sentiment remains the same: We'd get along better if we respected each other better. Would I want what you described to happen? No, I believe that act to be one of the most severely cruel things you can do to a person. Besides which, I tend to think that that act has less to do with religion and more to do with a extremist male dominated society imposing its rule on its people.

How easy it must be for everyone to come up with some example of how everyone else's ideas don't work. Who cares? Will any of you give two shits who I am when I am dead and generations have passed? No. No one will. Yet, I still think that my ideas are important, so I try to live up to them. However, I still respect other people's very different ideas as much as I can. It's when they trespass on others that I start to have issue with them. Mutilating your child I think is a HUGE disrespect, but the same could be said of Jehovah's Witnesses, who will never take blood, and would rather watch their child die rather than take a blood transfusion. So many stupid things we do to please a being who is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent....why do we waste our time? We are imperfect and unimportant, and our lives so short...why do we waste our energy and time? To get into Heaven?

Why would you try to take a very pointed thing like that and try to turn it around on someone who is simply trying to, generally, say that we don't respect each other enough?

True, but a question like "why don't we all get along?" is inexpensive. How can we deal with behaviors we consider intolerant, but others consider justified or common law or tradition? How do we achieve a maximum of tolerance and respect? And is this a common human goal at all? At least in secularized and liberal societies it may - or may not - be.

One thing's for sure, I can't tolerate genital mutilation and I can't tolerate brainwashing tactics like the pseudo-scientific "Intelligent Design". I can't respect religious fundamentalism when it's infiltrating our system of values and everyday life. It's a Gordian knot and I don't know if we will be able to find the sword. That was my whole point.

So many problems are caused simply because we can't just simply respect each other.

So, what do you do about, for example, muslim immigrants living in our western societies who still practice genital mutilation on young girls? Can we respect something like that? Can we westerners accept these forms of multiculturalism in our enlightened societies? What about genital mutilation in other countries? Does relativism of values work?

These are some of the current burning issues of our societies.

F##k no, of course I can't respect that... Bah... Then again I doubt true Muslims would either, or is that actually sanctioned by the Koran?

There are nut cases and lunatics everywhere. I'm sure many atheists are just as crazy as religious people too. Stalin, anyone? Genocide *without* religious basis. Although I guess he is an exception >.<

There does seem to be more religious nut cases than non-religious ones.

However you could argue that for example someone like Osama has lost his 'religiousness' by taking the word of Allah for evil purposes. Nothing in the Koran justifies what he does, regardless of how he goes on about "Jihad!" and "Holy War!".

Same with Hitler, some people say he was religious yet in many ways he lost his religiousness too with his persecution of the Jews and so many other people.

Why whenever I want to make a point about something or say something it never comes out right? o.o

Edit:

I guess in a lot of ways that discussing this sort of stuff *IS* a waste of time, I do after all have ~80 or so years to think about it it's just I guess I do wonder about these things and it can give new perspectives to life once you come to understand things better.

[djskrimp]

Here's my new belief. Agree, disagree, point and laugh, I don't care.

I love all human beings as I love myself. I try to make no assumptions, and until proven otherwise, I give all that I meet the respect each human is due. I admit my humanity, and therefore my flaw and imperfection, and expect no more and no less of anyone else. I will act in accordance with all that I need to for self-preservation, and I will act as much as I am able to be the Good Samaritan. I will live my life thusly:

“Lord, make me an instrument of your peace; where there is hatred, let me sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light; and where there is sadness, joy.” -attributed to St. Francis of Assisi.

"Lord" being me. There was a small phenomena in the United States some time back dealing with bracelets with the letters "WWJD", standing for "what would Jesus do?". I proffer my own bracelet: WSID, which means "What Should I Do"? It will remind me to think before I act, and not to rely on something or someone else for the answers. Because, at the end of the day, the only person to answer for my actions is me.

[djskrimp]

Edit:

I guess in a lot of ways that discussing this sort of stuff *IS* a waste of time, I do after all have ~80 or so years to think about it it's just I guess I do wonder about these things and it can give new perspectives to life once you come to understand things better.

I don't think it is a waste of time.

[Keeker]

Here's my new belief. Agree, disagree, point and laugh, I don't care.
“Lord, make me an instrument of your peace; where there is hatred, let me sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light; and where there is sadness, joy.” -attributed to St. Francis of Assisi.

There's a modern hymn based on those lines that we sing in the Kirk from time to time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M04U7cJL6Qs

I don't mean to offend anyone but those Christians they invited in the studio are just dumb.


(Actually I was disappointed by this TV show. Akercocke weren't serious, the Christians were stubborn and dumb, and the host couldn't keep control).

Oh, well, I meant personally for me maybe I was wasting time... I dunno... sorry if it sounded harsh.

It's just... bah I dunno how to put stuff. On one hand I like discussing this kind of stuff but on the other hand... I dunno... hehe I'm making even less sense than usual!

But yeah, good point djskrimp... We are entirely responsible for our own actions and the consequences.

Maybe we only find the true answer to all this once we die or are about to die >.<

[Keeker]

Oh, well, I meant personally for me maybe I was wasting time... I dunno... sorry if it sounded harsh.

I've yet to see you be as harsh as a ball of cotton wool.

It's just... bah I dunno how to put stuff. On one hand I like discussing this kind of stuff but on the other hand... I dunno... hehe I'm making even less sense than usual!

You've done fine. All anyone can do sensibly in this kind of discussion is state their own feelings on the matter. We feel what we feel! Perhaps we will read something somebody has said in this thread and take a positive idea away from it. Something that makes us think about stuff in a different way. That's the best I can hope for anyway.

That's what I've been doing for a few years now.
I've seen a lot of debates in other forums. Most of them end up with two person yelling at each other because they both think they are right. And even if one of them knows for sure that he/she is wrong, there's no way he'll/she'll (that looks so stupid ) admit it at any point.

These kind of conversations are not meant to convert other people to someone else's views or prove anyone wrong.

Perhaps we will read something somebody has said in this thread and take a positive idea away from it.

That's what debates are all about.

I believe in God and the whole 3-in-one thing, I was brought up Lutheran but I haven't practiced any faith in several years. I constantly question my faith in God and have done a lot of soul searching through the words of Max Cavalera.

Hey CyberMartyr don't worry about what your faith is to God, questioning is good cause it can give you a perspective on what you see and take in sometimes. But need not worry cause most of religions love to use dogma on anyone. I hate dogma big time. I don't conform to a way of doing things just knowing that I follow by the basics of what is preached about, is enough for me. As for the rest of everyone and this topic STOP! One thing people tend to forget to do is drop what they think and beileve and realize a big picture of respect towards humans. Remeber that even God hates religion. Why? Cause it makes people do some real stupid things like make wars and total population control through the mind. Enough.

A friend of mine once said that all God is really is LOVE.....when you have that, different shapes and forms, you have God. There's a way to state the God complexity.